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U.S mates... Bernie Sanders?

Discussion in 'Bar' started by Melb_shredder, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. Melb_shredder

    Melb_shredder Orpheus: Melodic Death

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    I don't know heaps about US politics as an outsider, but I try my best because it interests me as I'm sure it does to others in the world... I'm trying to keep up with who's running and what not and what they stand for. I must admit, I've fallen for Bernie Sanders, even if he may not win, he's saying ALL the shit we all already know but are scared to stand up for (goes for most people).

    The question I have is, does he have a chance, and should he?? He SEEMS like the kind of person the US needs at this point, but maybe that's just the idealist in me rooting for him.
     
  2. SocialNumb

    SocialNumb Damn Christians!

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    I feel the same way. IMO Sanders is what we need and have needed for a long time, assuming he's not completely full of it. Seems like he's the only one saying anything of any worth really. The crazy right is still stuck in the past, again, nit picking on gays, god, and guns. Hillary, the shoe in, well I don't see all that much about her at all save for her recent scandal. I was 100% convinced Clinton would take it no matter what (like I was with Obama) but now Sanders is giving me hope that just maybe, by some twist of temporary reason, he somehow takes it and runs with it till we catch up to the rest of the, IMO, good parts of the world.

    Yes, he should have the chance imo. Does he? I honestly don't know. He's using scary words like "socialist" and most of us don't seem to know what that means and associate it with Hitler for no rational reason at all.
     
  3. He's Dead, Jim

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    He's not going to win the Democratic nomination. He'll give Hillary Clinton a run for her money, but unless something huge happens (like Clinton getting indicted for her e-mail server scandal), he's probably already maxed out his voter base, which is predominantly young, white, disaffected males and über-left-leaning states.

    I have some knowledge about the dude since I grew up in Vermont, which is the state Bernie represents as a senator.

    I have some built-in issues with him that are more personal than political, but I think they're kind of telling. After the (communist) Sandinistas took over in Nicaragua in 1979, Bernie was elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont's largest city, and he went to Nicaragua and publicly endorsed the government. My father came to the U.S. as a political refugee fleeing the Sandinistas, who were marginally better than the previous dictatorship but plenty shitty in their own way, and he saw it as absolutely insane that this guy was claiming the government was doing all sorts of great things when it was torturing and jailing people for speaking out just like the dictatorship they had toppled. If you lack the intellectual honesty to say, "The U.S. supported a dictatorship, but the Sandinistas are also shitty," you're a turd. Bernie has never apologized or recanted on that count.

    That being said, I agree with him on getting money out of politics and raising the minimum wage. But many of his economic views- like de-normalizing trade relations with China- are totally fucking insane. More broadly, his solution to EVERYTHING is not "let's see how we can make markets work better and help people," but "let's soak the rich, tax the fuck out of them, and use it to pay for government to do everything." Economic policy shouldn't be an instrument of punishment against the wealthy, and when you talk about doubling and tripling marginal tax rates, that's basically what you're doing. He's a classic populist, and he's proposing ludicrous things that sound great but ultimately aren't going to happen and ought not to in many cases.

    edit: additionally, it's also fun that a lot of Bernie supporters believe he's somehow above politics. But he's one of the most pro-gun senators in the chamber because Vermont remains a pro-gun state. It's not as if Bernie is some sort of messiah for freedom and justice- he's a far left senator from a far left state proposing typical far left policies, nothing more and nothing less. Same as how Elizabeth Warren hates on Wall Street but is happy to give tax incentives to defense contractors in her state because they provide jobs and campaign contributions.

    double edit: and he got elected as senator solely because the NRA backed him over a moderate, pro-gun-control Republican.
     
  4. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    He's the only candidate so far I can vote for in good conscience. I think his run will push the election/debates in a good direction and I'm proud that we have a real leftist candidate to give some contrast to Hillary's center-right record/policies.

    I don't buy the 'he has no chance' argument. We'll see; people said the same thing in 2007 with Obama, and he was pulling slightly smaller crowds than Bernie is now.
     
  5. schust

    schust Member

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    It's obvious there are many Americans (mostly middle-class) that want significant change in the way Washington operates. Sanders represents that. Primarily because most of them (me included) are taking it up the ass while a few are benefiting from a government that benefits very wealthy individuals and corporations. I like Bernie's conviction, but like most Americans - only know him from a few appearances on Bill Maher's HBO show and other snippets the media decides to share. I do believe it's difficult to be a part of our political system for 20+ years and not show some "wear and tear" or have done something less than legal. Still, I think at this point I'd rather have him in office than Clinton. If nothing else, perhaps he could shake things up a little. I'm tired of having only two families from which to choose a president. Our whole revolution was about removing ourselves from Britain's Oligarchy at the time, and now we're stuck in a modern day version.
     
  6. indecizo

    indecizo Member

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    Still too early to tell and still 15 more months to go but yes he has a chance. Hillary's popularity may be strong today but has been rapidly declining.

    Leftist policies? No thank you.
     
  7. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    Aren't you like a 16 year old who doesn't live in the US?
     
  8. JasinElric

    JasinElric Straf Drah Studio

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    Weakness.
    I hope the monsters he's helped create eat him alive.
     
    #8 JasinElric, Aug 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  9. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    The "BLM vs Bernie" thing is blown out of proportion. They're actively protesting against the one candidate who would actually be on their side in both his campaigning and policies. They've tried to do the same shit at NetRoots, Portland, and Los Angeles rallies, as well.

    Jason, care to qualify that statement a bit more?
     
  10. SocialNumb

    SocialNumb Damn Christians!

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    That's what some people are saying, that it shows weakness. I want someone smart and that's what he is. Not someone that would take an irrational position just to show strength. It does not require brute strength to lead this country in the right direction. We have plenty of that and the biggest of pussies can send our armed forces in if need be. My only concern is if it's the smart decision at that point. That requires a smart person.
     
  11. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    Bernie has a shot. I think the big concern for him is peaking too early. He has the experience and a consistent message. The question is whether independent voters in purple states will vote for a socialist from New England.
    Certainly he's a more captivating candidate than Hilary right now.
     
  12. JasinElric

    JasinElric Straf Drah Studio

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    Not without this thread inevitably taking a turn for the worse; something I have no inclination to be responsible for. I'm aware there is an unwritten political consensus on this forum of views I do not share. My intent was to give my opinion to Chris, as an American. Nothing more.
     
  13. Melb_shredder

    Melb_shredder Orpheus: Melodic Death

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    Thanks for the opinions/ perspective guys :) much appreciated. I can't quite tell if this is a time where there could be some big change in the U.S., or on the flip side, a chance for more of the same (depending on candidate).

    I'm gonna safely assume no one wants trump to win though :/
     
  14. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    I'm watching this one from a distance, with some degree of bemusement. After witnessing the Australian public vote in one of the worst imaginable political parties, when all indications and signs were clear from day 1 that things would go exactly the way they have, it leaves little hope that the average person actually even knows how to vote in their own favour (if such a thing is even possible from within the current paradigm anymore). I only became aware of Bernie recently, where by chance I took one of those 'political quizzes'. Apparently my alignment with his policies was 99%, in spite of never having heard of him. The key question for me is, regardless of whether he's just another all-flash and no substance candidate like Obama, how much power one man even has to effect change in a system so fundamentally derailed by the flow of money? There are gargantuan industrial complexes he will have to contend with at all angles, and that's assuming the US public get over their historic aversion to socialism long enough to give him a shot in the first place.
     
  15. indecizo

    indecizo Member

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    I am a 24 y/o american studying in one of the top 10 universities in Mexico. The US is better in most aspects but here things are so far behind that there is a lot of opportunity I might end up living here for the rest of my life but then I'll have to continue bitching about ridiculous gear prices. :(
     
  16. smy1

    smy1 Member

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    The fact that he'd be considered rather right-wing in Germany has always amused me. The "communist, socialist, left-wing revolutionist nutjobs" in the US would be considered "conservative, overly religious, right-wing nutjobs" over here :)
     
  17. Belac

    Belac Flesh To Steel

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    Lmfao. That escalated quickly. (edit : nvm looks like the navy seal james bond death threats were removed :lol: )

    I really hope Bernie gets the nomination but for some reason Hilary enjoys the advantage despite doing almost nothing to have earned it. I highly doubt she will do anything the US needs since she is so right leaning. She is status quo at best and the US really does not need more of the same bullshit. At the very least I hope Bernie pushes her very hard and forces his views and policies into the debate so Hilary has to answer to the people that want to see his ideas come into the discussion.
     
  18. heshian46

    heshian46 Member

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    Im voting for Deez Nuts :fu:
     
  19. He's Dead, Jim

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    I think he's basically very similar to the French Socialist Party. Some of the things he's proposing now are similar to what Hollande tried to do (raising upper income taxes to ~90+%) when he came into office, before he acknowledged that France's financial situation wouldn't permit that sort of thing at the moment. But of course, Americans think he's way more radical than he actually is. Although I still would suggest de-normalizing trade relations with China and rolling back previous trade deals is something not even the European left would want, since Europe depends so much on intra-EU and international trade.
     
  20. SimonSezz

    SimonSezz New Metal Member

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    Sanders won't win because he's too old and doesn't meet the aesthetic requirements of the American people and the general support of the power players in the Democratic party. I am a Sanders supporter and have been for years. I used to listen to him whenever he was on Progressive Talk in Chicago. He would be the perfect candidate for the people and I don't think he's full of shit because he's been saying the same stuff for forty years. Only if there was a political revolution and a majority of young Americans came out and showed their support in mass numbers at Sander's public events then no chance of Sanders getting elected or even nominated.
     

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