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What do you think about Iconoclast?

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by clafalc, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. ItsOjMang

    ItsOjMang Member

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    Dude, there is so much less. I just listened to those parts and realized why I forgot them... The part in WAIL is just a clean version of the lick before, and the part in TEOI is barely noticeable. BTW, I didn't even consider side 2...it's nothing special.
     
  2. _Gentleman of_the Snow_

    _Gentleman of_the Snow_ Prog' Drummer

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    LOL, I pointed this out when the album was first released.
    Simply hilarious.
     
  3. ItsOjMang

    ItsOjMang Member

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    Really, its not ridiculous like you guys make it out to be. "We never question why.." is accounting for the majority and the group who just do what they are told, and don't ask questions. But, "Still I wonder why?" accounts for one person questioning all of this.
     
  4. AsoTamaki

    AsoTamaki Member

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    Haha. No, I actually agree with this. To me, it's Russell's delivery more than the actual lyrics that cracks me up inside a bit. Like, instead of "I" being emphasized, the "wonder whyyyyyy" is sung as if it's something completely different from the previous line.
     
  5. ItsOjMang

    ItsOjMang Member

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    Good point. Being a big DT fan, I guess I'm kind of used to this cheesiness in lyrics and just get over it...The music as a whole makes up for it big time.

    Maybe its like people getting over Chad Kroger's "YEAAAAAAAAAA!!!!" to enjoy Nickelback..?

    Nvm...nickelback just sucks.
     
  6. RuRoRul

    RuRoRul Member

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    When All Is Lost is an amazing song, but that line is bad and I also find it pretty funny, so I agreed with people pointing it out when the album came out, just not to the point that it actually detracted from the song significantly (never mind making it abysmal). I mean, I also find some of the lyrics to The Accolade fairly funny in how cheesy they are but I love that song.
     
  7. Harris The Epic

    Harris The Epic The Keyboard Guy

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    What do I think of Iconoclast?

    - Iconoclast is like... one of the best Symphony X songs ever.
    - There are way too many songs on the album, and way too many of them are heavy songs.
    - They could have arranged it way differently and done without a few songs.
    - Overall, I give the album an 9/10, because so much of it is solid, but the -1 because it's so difficult for me to listen to all the way through.
    - V is still better. Non-negotiable.

    I think that about sums it up in a nutshell.
     
  8. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    not all the way through and solid don't go together bro
     
  9. Harris The Epic

    Harris The Epic The Keyboard Guy

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    I know that; I never said they mean the same thing. (If I did, I don't think I meant to.)
     
  10. donKyle

    donKyle Member

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    I just can't listen to WAIL anymore. Iconoclast is the one I keep going back to when I try to listen to the album. I just don't really play the others as much anymore. It seems like while the album grows on many people, it does the opposite for me.
     
  11. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

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    ^haha same here. I don't really listen to it that much anymore, and when I do it's probably just the title track, coupled with Prometheus maybe? But that's usually it. There just isn't as much magic in the songs that keeps drawing you back to them as their older albums. They're all rather straightforward now.
     
  12. ItsOjMang

    ItsOjMang Member

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    Definitely.


    Yea this album never had to grow on me..in fact the first time I heard it, I loved it...and then SX held a permanent spot in my CD case. V, on the other hand, did have to grow on me. Once it did, it was over from there because it is the best album they've made...and one of the best albums ever made :Smokin:
     
  13. donKyle

    donKyle Member

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    Interesting. When I first heard V I liked it because at the time I was really into (still am, to a lesser extent) bands using orchestration in their music.
     
  14. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    I've said it before: "growing" is an excuse for people who find ways to rationalize their reconciliation with stuff they think they're supposed to like.
     
  15. _Gentleman of_the Snow_

    _Gentleman of_the Snow_ Prog' Drummer

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    I will always disagree with that viewpoint.

    Sometimes, certain music requires one to be familiar with it (either the style as a whole, or the specific album), before it can be enjoyable.
    Other times, a person may be switching their preferred style of music, and an album that was once disliked, becomes enjoyable over time.
     
  16. RuRoRul

    RuRoRul Member

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    Agreeing with Gentleman's disagreement. Maybe your mind is simply far more capable than us mere mortals could possibly comprehend, but I can think of almost no songs or albums that I reached my final level of appreciation of after only one listen - unless of course that level of appreciation was zero. In fact I hardly consider myself to be "familiar" with an album or song until I've heard it several times. A first listen is just like a cursory glance over - I certainly don't listen to a good song and think "Wow, that's great", then never listen again or listen to it several months / years down the line (like I might for, say, a film). A first listen is more like a test whether it sounds like something I want to listen to more - and only after doing that do I feel like I fully appreciate it.

    Bands that people are already a fan of might get the benefit of the doubt in that people are more willing to go through that listening more stage even if the first listen didn't grab them as much. That is definitely not the same as "forcing yourself to like something because you think you should".
     
  17. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    Maybe cause I'm aspergers it is a different experience for me. Each listen is the same listen - the same music, the same experience. I can discern anything I want to discern the first time through, provided it's not a noisy airport or something that interferes directly with listening. Many simultaneous processes running - lyrics, what each instrument is doing, how interesting it is, how original it is, how successful it is at conveying its message.

    To me, listening to something a bunch of times that you didn't immediately like and then later grow to like is equivalent to changing your opinion, since the music does not change. It is the same recording, only your perspective changes. Call it growing, or call it rationalizing. YMMV
     
  18. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

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    I remember a lovely quote by Nietzsche about this:

    "The slow arrow of beauty. The most noble kind of beauty is that which does not carry us away suddenly, whose attacks are not violent or intoxicating (this kind easily awakens disgust), but rather the kind of beauty which infiltrates slowly, which we carry along with us almost unnoticed, and meet up with again in dreams; finally, after it has for a long time lain modestly in our heart, it takes complete possession of us, filling our eyes with tears, our hearts with longing."

    Indeed some (though not necessarily all) of my all time favorite music took some time to grow on me. Symphony X's V is one example.

    - Disliking something and then liking it is not called "growing to like it", it's called changing your mind.

    - A "grower" is more like when you are neutral to it or you like it a little, and then you start to like and appreciate it more the more you spend time with it. It is also a type of penis but that is an entirely different matter.

    - There is nothing wrong with either, unless you are going to judge intentions.

    This falls under said judgement of intentions, not a valid reason to completely discredit the "growing" phenomena for everybody. Same with the "I have never experienced it" argument.
     
  19. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

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    You invoke Nietzsche, (nicely done btw)

    I invoke Plutarch: You say it's different to be neutral and grow to appreciate, than to dislike and change to like. How many boards must be removed from Theseus' ship before it can't be called such?

    DISCLAIMER: I don't expect to "win" any argument here, but I'm not going to dull the edges of my opinions (as I never do). It's an interesting discussion to me.
     
  20. Harris The Epic

    Harris The Epic The Keyboard Guy

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    Of course you're changing your opinion when you grow; opinions change as feelings change, that's how people are.
     

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