This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

I Want You!

Join Symphony X and discover tons of other great Metal forums, sign up today!

What do you think about Iconoclast?

Discussion in 'Symphony X (Unofficial)' started by clafalc, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. ElvenShadow

    ElvenShadow Guilty Gear

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Japan
    Yea I also agree that things can grow on people over time. There were a lot of of songs on V I thought were just so-so that certainly have grown on me over the years. The first time I listened to V was like probably 12 years ago so it's no surprise my opinion of certain songs have changed. My favorite SX song used to be OSAS and now while I still like that song it's not even in my top 5. I also often notice new things on subsequent listens of songs that I may not have picked up on before. If Ken claims he can pick out every little detail the first time and never notice anything new, while I find it a little hard to believe, there's no point in arguing or accusing him of lying. I think most people are not that way, though.
     
  2. Sauna

    Sauna Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Come on, you don't really even believe that yourself. Everyone learns to appreciate new kinds of music and different aspects to music as life goes on. Take any kind of extreme genre of music and among its fans you'll find tons of people who didn't get it at first. You think they're all just pretending?

    I've had so many albums and entire genres "grow" on me that I'm inclined to take that as a personal insult.
     
  3. Postulate

    Postulate Have a nice day! :)

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,474
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Learning to appreciate a new genre of music is sort of like learning a new language. That is, being given the sounds of the music will not allow you to understand it any more than being given the sounds of the language. When you first hear a language, you hear an uninterrupted stream, but then the prosody begins to take shape, then the arc of the discourse, even if you don't know exactly what's being said, and then the individual words begin to fill in. Finally, once you can effortlessly understand what is being said, you can become creative - to play with the language, and use it as a literary device, indulging in irony, metaphor, rhetoric, and argument.

    I don't intend this comparison to be metaphorical - having had both experiences many times, there is a real similarity there. Music growing on you is literally a type of leaning. Those types of music that don't grow on you might be stagnant because they have nothing to teach you.
     
  4. Pamonha

    Pamonha Petrified Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Fortaleza - CE - Brasil
    I would rewrite the first words on the first quote: "growing" CAN be an excuse; I think most of the times they are an excuse, but not in extreme genres since these groups tend to be smaller and a "poser" is quickly detected; but it's almost a fact newbies will always say some band or song is growing when you ask them if they liked the new australian artic death metal band, because they feel inclined to as being part of a group rather than really liking what they hear

    The easiest way to identify that sort of "growing" is being able to analyse your intentions and think critically about your choices and how you make them. But the higher capacity of doing this, lower are the chances you are a "fake grower" and vice-versa. So "fake grower-wise", it's hard to make them detect their intentions, even when it's obvious for us.

    I remember the first rock CD I bought, Aerosmith Big Ones... hated the long solo on Love in the Elevator; after taking guitar classes and hearing it again I was blown away and didn't understand why I didn't liked it... it sounded so fresh and natural...

    But it has been said here already, I learned new things and the way I approach music changed. It's always changing, thanks to the gods

    As for Iconoclast, I barely listen to it anymore... been listening a lot to DWOT, V and Odyssey (song); when I start hearing anything Iconoclast related I run for their older albums...
     
  5. Progbass

    Progbass Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Finland
    I agree with this. You dont listen close to the edge once and immediately decide...ok this was great or ok this was bad, not worth listening again.
     
  6. Harris The Epic

    Harris The Epic The Keyboard Guy

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    It also goes the other way.

    Example:
    Me upon Paradise Lost release: "THIS IS LIKE ONE OF THE BEST ALBUMS EVER."
    Me a year after Paradise Lost: "It's pretty good. Still not as good as V."
     
  7. _Gentleman of_the Snow_

    _Gentleman of_the Snow_ Prog' Drummer

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I look very forward to the first listen quite often. It CAN be the most enjoyable listen to me because everything is fresh... so interesting and exciting.

    A "grower" works the same way as something becoming boring after multiple listens. Sometimes, you get sick of an album because you've over-listened. Your opinion changes over time, yes... but sometimes an album becomes more interesting because you're familiar with it.
     
  8. mantarkus

    mantarkus New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Actually, for the time they took to release Iconoclast I was expecting a lot more. More orchestra (and cowbell maybe) and like someone mentioned, a stand out riff song. It's not a bad album, but I can't avoid the feeling that it was released in a hurry to meet the record company contract. I guess one of the reasons I was expecting more was because it had the same theme as Emerson Lake & Palmer's "Karn Evil #9" from the "Brain Salad Surgery" album and that the art work also hinted toward H.R. Giger's bio-mechanic concept. Again, it's not a bad album but maybe I need to listen to it more to really get the feel of the album (I'll try to ignore the "Bastard!!" Metallica like chorus which I really can't stand).
     
  9. Harris The Epic

    Harris The Epic The Keyboard Guy

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Yeah, my Iconoclast shirt looks a lot like the cover of Brain Salad Surgery. But I never really thought or realized that it had the same theme as that song. I always thought that was about a crazy freak show or something.
     
  10. ItsOjMang

    ItsOjMang Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    An album that has hit the spot right away for me (Dark Side of the Moon, Iconoclast, Octavarium) will never be forgotten because of its dramatic effect. On the other hand, neither will an album that has taken time (V, The Doors', and anything by Opeth) because of its indifferent, crushing sound. I guess I'm one of those that hears two different ways...

    And I believe that where you are at in your life strongly influences how you may hear music...new experiences bring new ideas, new-found likes and dislikes...Which sort of explains the 'growing' aspect. It is not rationalizing...but more so 'appreciating' things that are heard.

    Explain why I loved Lil Wayne while I was 16 and now all I like to listen to is Prog Metal... Unless I'm gettin my dance on... :kickass:
     
  11. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlantis
    I enjoyed Iconoclast upon its release (with the exception of a couple songs that I disliked from the beginning), but then it started to UNgrow on me. :lol: I don't necessarily dislike it now (not as much as some of the guys here do anyway) but I do think Symphony X could have done something better and more durable for sure. If they were to do something better though I would have wanted them to keep the title track and When All is Lost.

    The other two albums on the other hand I could never get into.

    True that.

    at that age I probably used to think anything other than trve metal was shit.

    And then I grew up.
     
  12. Prismatic Sphere

    Prismatic Sphere We Carouse

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    1,727
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    In A Bowl Of Chili
    I can still count on my fingers how many times I've listened to the Iconoclast album in its entirety; no more than 10.

    If you would have told me that this would be true of a double album by Symphony X in 2007, or even a year ago, I would have laughed in your face. And if you would have said to me pre-2007 that I would now be making a few cracks at the band's expense in how they have so slipped, I probably would have you punched you in the face.

    Yes, perspective is a funny thing.
     
  13. Detective Clarence Beauregard

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago
    This is kind of how I feel, as well. It's not like Iconoclast is a bad album; it's just too much of the same. As much as I think Paradise Lost wasn't as good as the albums that came before it, pretty much every song on it sounds different than the last. It was consistent and somewhat diverse, unlike Iconoclast.

    But I will say this: The subtle nuances in the music on Iconoclast are more similar to those we hear from the earlier records (pre-Odyssey), and are elements we've come to expect from Symphony X. By these I'm mostly talking about the polymetric grooves (title track, Dehumanized, Children, Prometheus, Electric Messiah), the X-style riffs, and the keyboard being pushed up in the mix (although not with patches that early Symphony X would have used). Unless I'm mistaken, Paradise Lost (the album) had a total of one polymetric groove. The album just didn't sound like Symphony X.

    With the signature riff style, for example, the first time I heard the second verse in Prometheus, I immediately thought to myself "Now this is Symphony X!" Not the vocal style, of course, but the Phrygian dominant riff. You didn't have stuff like that on Paradise Lost. I'd take it any day over the "good time bluesy feel" of the riffs in Eve of Seduction, for example.
     
  14. donKyle

    donKyle Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Texas
    It hardly even feels like a double album. It isn't even their longest album. How does that even make sense?
     
  15. ElvenShadow

    ElvenShadow Guilty Gear

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2002
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Japan
    It's not their longest? Live album doesn't count. What's longer? The whole thing does not fit on one cd.
     
  16. donKyle

    donKyle Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Texas
    No, it is, I was wrong. I thought The Odyssey was their longest. Iconoclast just doesn't feel long enough to be considered a double album. If you count the bonus tracks on The Odyssey, Iconoclast isn't that much longer.
     
  17. Marwen

    Marwen Five Align

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Atlantis
    Yeah it doesn't feel that long to me either, especially since I skip most of the songs when listening to it these days.
     
  18. Detective Clarence Beauregard

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Chicago
    :lol:

    Maybe the full album doesn't feel very long because all the songs sound almost identical to one another? Or maybe that would make it seem longer. I don't know!
     
  19. Sauna

    Sauna Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I think it would have been best to just put six songs on each disc and call them parts one and two of the album. That way we'd have two entities with perfect running times instead one monster that's just too long for its own sake.
     
  20. Kenneth R.

    Kenneth R. Cináed

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Messages:
    17,892
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Hallways of Always
    indeed, and the edited material might be passable. IC and even PL are not up to par...
     

Share This Page