This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

What is femininity?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Norsemaiden, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    You're female but wouldn't you agree that moshing and growling is unfeminine? Myself I am trying to learn bellydancing from a video by a woman called Dolphinia, and she moves in such a sensual, seductive and poised way that has to be "feminine" imo. However I think it is learned to some extent, and she's really putting it on. I'm trying to copy it because I think its a good skill. The particular way she smiles though just seems just too much like its directed at trying to seduce, and I think it's a little ridiculous.

    But that's feminine because it comes more naturally to a woman than a man.

    Growling suggests an attempt to intimidate - which both male and females have need to do in theory - and both male and females of animals that growl do so. However with the male, their growl is more of a male status thing - to do with rank - while the female growls purely in defense of something like food or themselves or their offspring. This animal parallel will apply to humans as well even though we might not like to admit it.


    One definate feminine thing is that how female mammals are fertilised by males, get pregnant and lactate. Those are the primary feminine things. No matter what shape a female is in - if she has the biology to fulfil that she is feminine. Extra femininity, I have now decided (!) comes from accentuating those roles in some way - which is not any kind of suggestion that extra femininity is necessarily a good thing, although if it is a trait that increases reproductive success then Nature obviously has rewarded that trait. So if a woman can get a higher quality of mate and more successfully reproduce by belly dancing (for example) than a woman would by growling and moshing, then that could be said to be more feminine behaviour. Any behaviour that increases the female's ability to fulfil the female biological role can be considered feminine. How's that for a definition?

    And any behaviour that increases the male's ability to fertilise females and maximise the success of his offspring is masculine.

    Except where the two co-incide. So being a good cook can be masculine in that it charms women (not in all cultures - which is why it is considered feminine in Africa for eg) and cooking is also feminine when a woman does it because she is helping feed her family as well as pleasing her man.

    As mentioned above there are cultural differences on what is feminine. For some Africans having necks stretched with many hoops or plates inserted in lips is feminine. But really it all comes down to what is considered sexually attractive to the opposite sex and reproductively helpful.

    So in that case the pink fluffiness and helplessness I mentioned to begin with WOULD BE feminine IF it was really what lured the woman a suitable mate, but not if the mate she has in mind just thinks she's pathetic and goes for a more resourceful and strong woman instead. The latter would be more feminine because she got the man and the babies. And that's the whole point.

    The least feminine woman is one who can't do any of the following: attract a man; give birth; raise children. But I still think a woman can't be masculine, only that she can be more or less feminine.
     
  2. Methadrenal

    Methadrenal Addicted to the cold

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    the emerald isle
    Not really. Whatever evolutionary origin it might have, it really isn't relevant when you consider that I do it in the context of music. Attaching that evolutionary meaning to it doesn't make sense.

    As for moshing, I wouldn't say that comes more naturally to males either. It's not about status or asserting yourself. It's about dopamine and adrenaline. It's about losing yourself and enjoying yourself as well as bonding with and being caught up with a group.

    Logical enough. But is that a helpful definition when it comes to social behaviours? Can you really reduce anything to 'would it help you mate?'
     
  3. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
    Saying it isn't feminine is in no way a put-down. But if it did attract a quality mate then imo it can qualify as being feminine.


    I think so. Even in the case of little girls who are feminine, it could be just that they are showing that when they reach maturity they are likely to have more sex appeal ( but this isn't straightforward to predict).
     
  4. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Britain
  5. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Cooperstown and Oswego, NY
    I didn't read this article, but I have learned about this in some of my classes. I was also watching something, either in class or on one of the Discovery networks, in the differences not only in what male and female children will be likely to want to play with, but how they approach play as well. The example that was used in this particular documentary was videogames. Generally, the male children just picked up a controller and started playing right away, while the female children tended to prefer to sit back and observe for a while, so that they could learn more about the game before playing it. Interestingly, this is also consistent with the reproductive strategies of most species.
     
  6. Methadrenal

    Methadrenal Addicted to the cold

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    the emerald isle
    That depends on people's opinions I suppose, some guys do like tough mosher girls.

    Yes...So you see why I don't think ideas like femininity and masculinity should be allowed to be major components of our self identity?
     
  7. OldScratch

    OldScratch Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    793
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    I think you must accept that you are an exception among females, and that in and of itself is no reason to discredit the practice of self-identifying along traditional feminine/masculine lines. It seems you are taking issue with these concepts for purely personal reasons alone. That's understandable, but it doesn't mean others aren't equally clear on where they prefer the lines of femininity/masculinity to be drawn, or that they be drawn at all.

    By the by, why on earth do you growl? And at what or whom do you generally unbosom this growling? I don't believe I've ever heard of such a thing.
     
  8. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    :lol: good one !

    Im just assuming one of those into that death metal, new metal form of so called "vocals".

    I also muse at moshing, I've yet to see any masculinity in it, I just see immature kids taking over the front of the stage and making it difficult for others to enjoy the concerts.
     

Share This Page