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Who has guitar-mix problems??

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by outloaf, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    I have a RME fireface 800.. and an Audient ASP008 ADAT preamp.. pretty decent stuff on the recording end.. Mics I've been using for years are Royer 121, SM57, MD421.. all that normal stuff for guitars.. Amps are 5150, mesa boogie triple recto with voodoo amp mod. Cabs are Mesa V30 4x12, avatar with Gt75's and V30's and a marshall cab with Gt75's and greenbacks.. Okay now I'm loving my mix until the guitar goes in. it just sounds like harsh mids and takes up too much space. Anyone else dealing with that? I'm gonna blame it on the fact that maybe I need an avalon or chandler preamp.. its just not sitting right. GAH!!!! Also. the stereo image of panned rythem guitars is complete crap!
     
  2. HandsOfDespair

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    Could be so many things...but it's definetly not your gear. Maybe your mic placement is wrong.
     
  3. nch3966

    nch3966 Member

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    sound clip?? it may just be eq issues and maybe your recording too hot or quiet in
     
  4. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    I've worked with GGGarth Richardson.. Ben Shigl (who did all the tracking for Chimaira) I don't do anything differently than they do.. I'm just baffeled by this. I'll put up a sound clip in a few minutes. Maybe someone can offer a solution. I was also thinking it could be my clock.. Was looking into the Black Lion Audio Clock, Pre, and ADC..
     
  5. nch3966

    nch3966 Member

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    mmmmm...or room but ya a sound clip may be best for a solution
     
  6. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

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    How about you send me DIs and a backing track for your mix and I'll see if I can coax a good tone from them. I also have a Fireface 800 and similar amps. PM me.
     
  7. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    Check it out http://drop.io/gtrtest9

    the "test" is just my mix in progress.. and the cover song is one that I did.. all real insturments.. except for drum trigs of course.. I mixed and mastered.
     
  8. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

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    Sounds stuffy and really farty to me. It's probably how you're recording the amp. As I said, send me the DIs and the backing track and I'll have something going for you within the week.
     
  9. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    Weird right??! Thing is .. I can't have other people do reamping for me... I don't have money to throw towards that.
     
  10. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    with your amps/cabs/mics/interface, getting something like a chandler or avalon pre shouldn't make really dick of a difference - you should be able to pull awesome tones by plugging in a $100 chinese made guitar, and running the mics into a behringer mixer

    i'd say your poopy tone will be the result of either bad mic placement, bad amp settings, a bad room(most likely culprit), or bad pickups/strings

    same thing goes with the clock and converters...there's folks who are making major albums right now thru a fireface 800, and others who get amazing tone with less. it's def. important, but your chain isn't deficient enough to where it's going to wreck the sound of your mix.
     
  11. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

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    My room sucks. It's nearly square. I have no treatment aside from some roxul surrounding the cabinet in a few areas. I have no problem getting good tones.

    I'm gonna say its tonestack settings/mic placement.
     
  12. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    I'm going to attribute it to the room. Standing waves.... phase canceling reflections? that jazz. If that's what it sounds like.. Just sounds to me like low end mudd and zero clairity and.. like kind of over-compressed. I've messed with mic placement for years... I have recorded in some really nice places and I did all the placement and it came out great.. never thought a room would really destroy that. But even still.. I don't see how it can make that horrible of a sound.. I'm a guitar tone freak... definitely know what I'm doing as far as the amps go.. it just not translating after it gets in the computer. I have spent like 12 hours a day mixing up mics... doing single micing... every wich-way with every speaker... amp channels ..literally have done every combination of all of that.. still get the same results. How do you guy place your mics? Cuz I'll tell ya.. with the Royer.. straight on center sounds the best.. It isn't harsh with a ribbon. but 57's obviouly where the paper meets cone. Here's some other stuff I did semi-recently. http://www.myspace.com/whatliesbeneathny
     
  13. Ermz

    Ermz ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    It's very possible that acoustics are playing a part. My best guitar recordings are still from the first few years when I did a majority of them in the studio, in a very dead, medium-size live space.

    Once you start trying to hammer them out in a bedroom you fight a bit of an uphill battle, because the tone of your room will always be a part of your recordings, no matter how close you mic that cone.

    Listening to your clip, something seems a little bit odd and flat about the tone itself. If you're blaming that on your preamp, then you're really trying to count them chickens before they hatch. Go back to the source, evaluate whether it's sounding good in the room itself, then take it step by step from there. You're using much better gear than I've recently had populating my records.
     
  14. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    I was just throwing possibilities out there... it has to be the room.. I'm working with really decent gear. It's an 8x8 room... hard wood floor.. but I dropped moving blankets in there to kill the high end slapback.. obviously the low is still pretty boomy.. but it's better now that I have the cab elevated.. still though, doesn't seem like it makes enough sense to completely wreck it like it has been. Also, I've amped in my "live room" which is a 16x16 with 12 foot ceiling, hard wood floor.. and diffusers... still getting the same general results. less low boom of course. Oh, here's my DI's with backing track crap. http://drop.io/DIandbktrks
     
  15. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    Here's the amp straight with me dillin around. V30... Royer 6 inches away slightly off center. ya cant go wrong with it.. but it just sounds completely restrained and not open. I hope someone can offer some type of insight.

    http://drop.io/v30roy121
     
  16. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    move the 121 closer to centre of the cone (not distance wise but left to right) . and then tilt it slightly forward.
     
  17. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    it's like a half inch off center. just to curb the super harsh grind... and tilted top foreward a little bit.. But does it sound like its in a straight jacket to you? And also, GORGEOUS studio pictures and gear list. Think it would help "take the cottonballs out of my ears and amps" to get a really nice 2 channel pre amp? as opposed to the audient asp008 and fireface pre's?
     
  18. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    no

    my. joey sturgis is making some of the biggest-selling records in the metal/whatevercore genre right now, using mostly the preamps in his fireface. that's def. not your weakest link...
     
  19. outloaf

    outloaf Member

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    It has to be completely amp related. how do you get your amp tone to open up and should I remove some of the power tubes?
     
  20. [UEAK]Clowd

    [UEAK]Clowd Member

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    weird man, I have worked with Ben(and Tony) @ Spider too, and GGGarth is one of my dream producers to work with. what band are you in?

    edit: I suppose I should offer some useful input as well.

    I've always just put a 57 up where the cone meets, then I go back to the control room and fiddle with the knobs a bit, tweak the mic as necessary... then I'm pretty much there. highpass/lowpass and you should be good to go. what are your amp settings like? I really don't think it's the room, my room blows nuts and I've still managed some decent tones. PM sent.
     

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