This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Who has guitar-mix problems??

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by outloaf, Dec 15, 2009.

  1. greyskull

    greyskull Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    6,077
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    cheers mate!
    mmm the 121 is a tricky beast to get right.... i would honestly almost go for dead centre with it (sacrilage i know) but i find that the top end is so smooth it tames any harshness from the speakers. dead centre tilt forward. the audient and fireface are just fine mate! if the amp sounds right in the room, move the mic. and do it with your ears and not your eyes. And move the cab away from any walls too. keep at it
     
  2. outloaf

    outloaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, NY
    I think it's just the nature of the amp... it's not the smoothest sounding thing ever... I'll get my peavey back up here and see what I get out of that... Any suggestions for heads?
     
  3. Aaron Smith

    Aaron Smith Envisage Audio

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    The 5150 is killer for recording, so you might have an easier time with that than the Triple Rec. I feel like your problems are completely mic placement and amp settings, though. There is essentially an endless combination of amp settings/mic placement possible... Crank the high end on the amp, and adjust the mic away from the dustcap to compensate for the new brightness in the tone, or vice versa. Just keep tweaking both of those variables (and not just the high end knob on the amp of course), use your ears, and eventually you will find something that you like! And the more you do it, the better you'll get, and the easier it will be to nail a good tone the next time you set it all up.
     
  4. outloaf

    outloaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, NY
    Been doing that for years... it always end up with the same general tone no matter what. I just settle cuz I can mix it in and thin it out so at least its tolerable. this past week, I've literally spend all day with amp eq/mic placement.. some better some worse.. but it just comes back around to complete shit. There's only thousands of combinations and I really think I've exhausted them all. And, Im a tone geek... Do you think that the celestions they put in Avatar cabs are the ones that didn't make the cut and were sold off ultra cheap?
     
  5. ScootBaloo

    ScootBaloo Metal Scientist

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I think that V30's and SM57 are a killer combination, the Royer seems to
    be missing some high frequencies in my opinion.
     
  6. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    19,931
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    That sounds fucking evil dude (god I love Rectifiers :worship: ), or at least I can tell it would if the mic were closer to the speaker and dustcap! Why not try the venerable 57, or at least blend the two? Also, the bass/boom is a bit heavy, are you using a Tube Screamer? (if not, highly recommended)
     
  7. outloaf

    outloaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, NY
    I always use a TS.. got the reissue.. I think the boomyness is just the room.. I'm kinda screwed there. here's another.. gibson SG.. royer 5 inches away..center cone.. horrid music because I'm frustrated and I can't take anything seriously apparently.
    http://drop.io/lostmymind12
     
  8. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Long Beach, New York
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with that clip above. It's a really cool tone for THAT song.

    I don't think it would work for the other song you showcased, though.
     
  9. HSL

    HSL Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Actually I don't think this is that bad. Of course it can be improved though, and I think you'll get a lot of bang for your buck by simply moving your cab out of the 8X8 foot room. I've got a smaller room too but I've got $2000 worth of treatment in there (bass trapping). My problem is a little different from yours: my mixes sound a tad on the tiny and too accurate side of things.

    I've treated that room mostly for a mixing/listening space but that's where I do some of my tracking for guitar too. Since it's treated to hell and back it's a pretty dry/dead room, and that definitely shows up on the recording. I like my guitars to sound a bit more spacious and to have a little more of a room sound, so it's basically impossible to get that in there since the treatment kills every reflection that's thrown at it :p. It almost sounds like I'm recording direct in there, kind of like a pedal directly into an interface.

    Our problems seem opposite. I bet when you're in a bigger room with a nice balance it'll definitely kick it up a notch :)
     
  10. outloaf

    outloaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, NY
    Bass traps are wicked expensive if I'm correct. Unless you guys have a way to make em.. or things to use. I'm really at witts end
     
  11. HSL

    HSL Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Indeed, they are, but I consider treatment the holy grail of gear. It doesn't look as fancy as other high end gear since it has no LEDs or anything, but it can definitely make one hell of a difference. The best advice that I can give you, even though this may be hard to hear, is to move out of that 8X8 room COMPLETELY. Anything smaller than an 8X8 room and it's seriously unusable.

    I'm in a smaller room too so I can empathize. I think a good experiment for you would be to take your cab and put it into the kitchen, living room, hallway, anything that's bigger than that room. Reamp a DI into it in your small room, then in the other bigger one and see what the difference is. If you notice a difference, acoustics is the culprit.
     
  12. outloaf

    outloaf Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Niagara Falls, NY
    I'll re-track those horrible riffs with the cabs in the big room.. and post it up if I get a difference. Thanks so much guys, you're helping me figure this out. And also, what kind of traps should I look into?
     
  13. HSL

    HSL Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    You can start by getting bass traps in that 8X8 room if that's all you have to work with, and the beauty is that the treatment will go with you whenever you move out of it. The biggest problem with smaller rooms is definitely going to controlling the low end, so bass trapping is the way to go. You'll get most of the bang for your buck by taking out the corners in your room first, then getting your first reflections.

    http://www.gikacoustics.com - that's probably your best bet. Good prices and customer service. Look into the TriTraps for getting your corners first.

    Remember, this is an investment and you WILL need treatment, regardless, if you plan on recording in the future.
     
  14. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    19,931
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    DIY your traps man, these threads should help:

    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/377128-basic-acoustic-treatment-help.html (Great overview)
    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ou-not-thinking-about-treating-your-room.html (Great overview)
    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/352943-some-advice-diy-bass-traps-2.html (Info about 703 vs. 705, esp. on pg. 2)
    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/361142-bass-trappin.html (Good info on DIY bass traps)

    But honestly, I think you're worrying too much about the room/preamps/other minutae, that most recent clip sounds good but I really think your problems lie in amp settings but especially mic choice/placement! Good call on using the TS, so to tame the boominess in that clip I mentioned I'd just drop the bass knob slightly (I used to run my old Dual Rec with the bass at like 11:00, it has plenty!), for example
     
  15. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    19,931
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Case in point, this was recorded in my living room (Dual Rec, Recto 4x12, SM57, Mackie Onyx preamp, and the only processing is HP/LP and a multi-band comp. taming the palm mutes)

    And after EQ'ing (narrow 1-3 dB cuts at 700, 2k, and of course, 6k :loco: ), here's my EP tone
     
  16. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Long Beach, New York
    When are you gonna finish your ep up?
     
  17. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    19,931
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Haha, coming in to the home stretch now finally, should be in the next month or so!
     
  18. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Long Beach, New York
    Holy crap. I just saw that it was an 8x8 room. I completely missed that. I retract my "the acoustics probably isn't the issue statement."
     
  19. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    19,931
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I have no concept of distance, so 8x8 didn't immediately register - but yeah, now that I think of it, that's like the size of a small walk-in closet (for reference, here's the living room I mentioned :D And I might as well post the amp settings pic too)
     
  20. lolzgreg

    lolzgreg Cereal Shipping Sneapster

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Long Beach, New York
    If your living room had wood floors, that would be one sexy place to record drums.
     

Share This Page