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who's using elastic audio/equivalent on drums?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Machinated, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    I've always been a slicing man when it comes to drum editing. I'm well aware of the phase issues you can get with stretching, especially as each track gets processed depending on the individual waveforms of the track.

    HOWEVER, I know there's a lot of people using EA on drums with decent enough results. Today I was editing something where the only way I could get good results was copy and pasting hits that were clean over ones where I was getting that annoying double snare ring.

    If elastic audio can do a reasonable job, it's surely going to sound better on some beats/edits?
     
  2. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    Normally no. Too many artefacts.
     
  3. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    bugger. still curious about the people who do have luck with it.....
     
  4. Revson

    Revson Member

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    I've had pretty good luck with it using it in polyphonic mode. I think in one of those CreativeLive classes, Sam Pura said he uses it and is happy with the results.
     
  5. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    I know guys who do it but could never get it to work for me. Even if it sounded "right" I would probably opt for traditional editing because it would feel strange trusting the stretching.
     
  6. Mago

    Mago Austrian Blech Machine

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    I've seen people edit with EA only...I never did a direct shootout and comparing, but I dunno...bad gut feeling with that somehow.
    Should take the time somewhen to do a proper comparison though, would be a lot easier and time saving.

    I do however stretch gaps that are too long to fill normally to avoid ringing.
     
  7. mva801

    mva801 Member

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    This. I'm too scared of phase issues/ artifacts to EA a whole song of drums, but if there is a little section that needs stretched I'll do that.
     
  8. JeffTD

    JeffTD Senhor Testiculo

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    I would MUCH rather do a combo of multiple slip edits + equal power crossfades to lengthen a gap that was too short and do it all the time.
     
  9. Mago

    Mago Austrian Blech Machine

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    I' do that too, but if it still ends up sounding too ringy for me then I'll stretch everything after the transient, then see how much of the original I can pull back in without getting the looping back.

    Since that usually doesn't involve transients it works, for me at least. But only if you don't have to do it a lot (and with that I mean maybe more than once a minute of playing).
    Also handy if you don't have a part to copy into because of cymbals ringing, or when you haven't gotten samples to replace a tail etc...
     
  10. EachHit

    EachHit ScytheBeast

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    i did some editing with EA a few times and in the Beginning I never realised how bad it is sometimes. But after doing some editing with Beat Detective and only using EA on Parts where there was toomuch Space between the Gaps's so you could hear Tails from a Hit a Second Time I realised that it is affecting the Sound in the Bad way. Especially on the Bottom Snare Mic. It helps a bit when I use different Algorithm for each Microphone. Monophonic on Toms and Varispeed or something like that on Overheads.

    Heavy Greetz
     
  11. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    I personnally do pure slip editing, and occasionally would stretch the odd parts that could benefit from it and where slicing is not enough. But on those occasions I would usually find better information somewhere else and copy paste it there.
     
  12. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    somewhat reassuring to know we're all doing the same thing.

    still wondering how people use EA and make it work. I had a play with it this morning and there was artefacts everywhere.
     
  13. greyskull

    greyskull Member

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    It's quite good on bass... BUT I'd still just cut and move before using EA.
     
  14. mickrich

    mickrich Member

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    Has to be slicing or beat detective for me.
    Coincidentally, I had a production meeting with my students last week listening to their band recording projects and one had used elastic audio for the drums.
    He had used different algos for the shells and overheads which made it worse due to them getting stretched differently and had phase problems everywhere.
    In the class I showed them how to edit the drums using a combination of beat detective and region quanitize and the results were obviously far better.

    Related, I wish Logic's slicing mode had an equivalent of beat detective's trigger pad so cymbal hits slightly before the shell hits would move together.
    I absolutely hate it when shells get moved slightly later (to the right) and leave the transient of the ride cymbal at the original position.
    A few adjustable milliseconds of pre attack time would be a massive time saver.
     
  15. Line666

    Line666 Fendurr

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    I stretch the odd hit that can't be aligned with slipping without weird cymbal crossover - it's very much on a case by case basis though and I only use it as a measure of last resort on single instances where I can keep an ear on the quality of the overheads relevant to the stretch.
     
  16. DesireX

    DesireX Member

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    I use beat detective if I'm in a studio equipped with pro tools.
    Other than that, I use Logic's flex time (slice mode) in my home studio. Have never encountered any artefacts/phasing issues thus far.
     
  17. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    I've used slice mode in logic for years but the amount that's done behind the scenes is annoying. it's much more useful to know where each edit is taking place and to be able to see what's going on with the waveform in each fade.

    fine for quick use but I had to many weird annomolies that were annoying to keep having to fix.
     
  18. amarshism

    amarshism Member

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  19. kaomao

    kaomao Member

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    Never worked for me really... I used it once on a project, the alignment across the drums tracks was fucked up due to the algo not working as expected: stretching differently on every track even though the were grouped.
    I guess I did it wrong..
    Beat detective to me is faster and if the gap is too wide I'll let the drummer play again the part if possible (I edit while tracking... yeah I know it's not something you all people do, but I want to save time), if not I'll find another section to copy and paste.
     
  20. crillemannen

    crillemannen Member

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    I brought up that using elastic audio is creating phase issues on a FB forum. I said it was pretty much consensus in the audio business. The thread went ape shit and people defended EA to death. I never used it that much. I really don't see any need VS beat detective. BT is great and i always get the results i want.
     

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