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2013: CONSTRUCT

Discussion in 'Dark Tranquillity' started by Defiance, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. forgotmypassword

    forgotmypassword New Metal Member

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    The dollar has actually strengthened against the Euro since 2008. http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=10Yz=l&q=l&c=&ql=1
    The dollar has weakened against the Krona, but it's at similar levels as tours past. http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=SEK&view=10Y

    As to your other points, I think you're 100% correct. Travel expenses alone probably make it pointless, if not a money losing venture. Then there's the visa process, etc. But other bands from the same region still come here. Insomnium, Katatonia, Swallow the Sun, for example, were all here in the last two years. So my fingers are crossed even though I've learned to take Niklas' statements on Twitter about possible NA tours with a grain of salt.
     
  2. Kara-Shehr

    Kara-Shehr Member

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    New album is incredible! The song that stood out the most for me on the first listen was "What only you know" really enjoyed the melodies on that one. The Science of Noise is quite good as well, the bridge is probably my favorite part of the song. That guitar solo over those chords are just too good, will probably be looping that part frequently.
     
  3. Darkest_Dimension

    Darkest_Dimension New Metal Member

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    I'm just going to point out the obvious here. If you dont understand an album, if your not "into it" after 5 or 6 listens, it simply means you dont like the album very much.

    I've read a great few reviews/posts/comments with regards to this album that sound much like the above.
    The overall tone seems to be: "well, i didnt like it at first, but then i drowned myself in it and now its better than before"

    It just seems like too many people are trying to force themselves to accept and enjoy this album - labeling it it a "grower" and such.


    My thoughts exactly - this band has been at the pinnacle of true metal for me.
    The Gallery thru Fiction represent more than a decade of the best melodeath ever created IMO.
    Every album in this age immediately hit the spot for me and then went on to become timeless pieces of my musical collection.

    Its true that i have learned to appreciate certain DT albums and/or songs even more with time, but i cannot think of one DT album, or even one song that took me 5 or 6 listens to decide whether i was "into it" or not.

    Most of us know what good music is according to our personal tastes. That's probably why i didnt have to sit there and listen to "A Sense of Purpose" another 5 times before i decided to finally put it down for good.




    I know i'm new to this board and all, but i'm a huge fan of the Gothenberg style, and it seems like its being drained out of DT's music to the sound of this board's applause.

    Even in projector, (one of my favorite albums) when they went with cleaner, more mellow harmonies, they still brought it back to real hard hitting metal sound combined with catchy licks and riffs at key points.

    a band that doesn't sound metal.
    takes a while to get into.
    no riffs.
    atmospheric.

    None of those terms describe DT for me. Its fine to be excited about something different, but this is just an entirely different genre of metal being described.

    I must be the only one here who thinks this new album's "atmosphere" translates to mostly just bland generic metal.
    with the exception of the science of noise, this album is incredibly disappointing to me.

    I might get some heat from some of you for sounding so negative, or maybe i'll just be ignored due to my lack of credibility on UM, but i have been following this thread since it started and i wanted to voice my opinion as you all have done.

    BOTTOM LINE:

    FOR ME, this is not an exciting album. DT's signature sound is very much diluted and the song structures are not well thought out.
    Some of the tracks start out really nicely, giving the feeling that the album is gonna really start to pick up, but the energy eventually dissipates and fades into a a drawn out, dreary "atmosphere".

    All that being said, this band has written 7 straight albums of near perfect music IMO.
    And SkyDancer, WATV and Construct all have individual songs that i consider to be better than most of the stuff out there. So i will not even think of knocking DT as a band, but i will say that i am not excited about the direction they are heading.

    The conclusion that i ultimately came to is that this is DT's least interesting album to date. I have added the Science of Noise to my favs playlist, but unfortunately the rest of the album fails to impress.
     
  4. nerxastul_millenxi

    nerxastul_millenxi New Metal Member

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    In my opinion “grower” have many definitions.
    For me; some songs in The Mind’s I and The Gallery had so complex and twisted songs. I need extra times to learn them. And some good songs from Projector, Damage Done, Character and Fiction were discovered lately.
    Grower for an album it means grows for any songs within the album for my acceptance criteria. Of course it’s personal/ individual thought and it would make debate for the meaning of grower.

    And for me to force myself to accept an album is not same with grower, because it won’t make permanently effect.
    It happened to me, I try myself to accept the WATV and it left me with many blank spot and with the Construct I won’t do it again. I try to be honest to myself and the result; I only listen to Construct 3 times.

    Criticism does not mean hate, it means something does not fit with the expectation from what we love.
    And if the expectation still can’t be realized then we only can replay an old memory from them.
     
  5. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    This is not "the obvious", this is "the exceptionally dumb". It is not an established fact that material which is not immediately accessible will not be appealing to the listener. While you haven't established this fact, I think has neatly refuted this argument with Projector. Projector was a weird fucking album, and it took a lot of people a lot of time to get into it, but it's now recognized as one of the greatest and most important albums in the band's repertoire and the genre as a whole.

    Shallow music is immediately accessible to all listeners because anything good that's there can be detected on the first listen. Truly great music actually challenges the listener to think and grow a bit in order to understand it. This is not simply true of music, but of all art.

    Other than that, don't worry about getting "heat" on this forum because opinions are opinions and no one really cares about them, here or elsewhere.
     
  6. Darkest_Dimension

    Darkest_Dimension New Metal Member

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    It’s not “exceptionally dumb” to state that its apparent you don’t like something if you're still not into it after your 5th time listening to it.
    The reviewer i was quoting stated that it was difficult to get into and that's why she listened to it like crazy -at home at work, etc.
    She didnt listen to it because she enjoyed the music or because it was appealing to her. In fact, she said the opposite - it didnt appeal to her and thats why she had to listen to it so many times.
    That means she didnt like it, plain and simple.

    She was trying to prove to herself the preconceived notion that the album was good. and big suprise - she finally convinced herself.

    Yea, you can grow to like something, but that process takes place organically over time and is not something that can be predicted, and then fullfilled pending on the amount of spins you've given it. Our musical taste does evolve over time, but not by force. not the way its being described here.

    Going from liking something to loving it over the course of time makes sense to me.
    Going from not being into something at all and then listening to it over and over and over again, and then saying "oh yea, now i get it". That's called trying to force yourself to like it.
    “Growers” don’t just switch from uninteresting to exceptional after x amount of listens. They grow with the person.


    Projector was an awesome sound from the get go for me. Yea, it was weird compared to its predecessors, but it was good sounding music, and that much was apparent at first listen for a great number of people.


    ...your generalizing and that argument flawed.
    As i've stated above, i think DT's music has immediate appeal and also becomes even greater with time. THAT is the trait of true art

    Take classical music for example. When you listen to Beehtoven, you hear beauty and then, with time, you learn to appriciate and understand the depth and complexity of it.

    Or how about art? Salvador Dali - immediate attraction at first glance and then a deeper meaning is realized upon closer inspection.(not sure if Dali is ur cup of tea, but you get my point)

    Music doesnt have to be challenging to understand in order for it to be great; In fact, Great music contains elements of both immediate appeal and deeper meaning.
    To have both attributes is the testimant of truely inspirational art.


    Sorry to condradict, but I'll "point out the obvious" again - People care about opinions here and practically everywhere else.
    This board exists so that we can discuss and share our opinions.

    The whole reason i added that statement is because after browsing some of the boards on UM (especially IF's) i realized that people might take me the wrong way and just start trashing me instead of actually discussing their opnions on the matter.

    Correspondingly, I greatly appreciate your opinion on my post and i'm glad you felt strongly enough to discuss the matter.


    I can see that you and many others are pretty excited about the experimental process DT is going thru right now. I just hope that the next album incorporates more the signature DT sound that got me hooked on them in the first place.

    BTW I’ve read a lot of what you’ve posted in the past and I know how passionate you are about this music (your WATV breakdown was fucking incredible).
    I'm actually stoked that you even noticed my post. You see, there arent many metal fans in Souch Orange County so i dont really get to discuss these things with anyone around. The chance to discuss this topic with you means a great deal more to me than you might imagine
     
  7. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    Ironically, this kind of mental self-deception (looking for something hard enough you'll find it one way or another) is a large part of the lyrical theme of Construct. I will say, however, that I think her preconceived notion was based on trust. I trust that the artists of DT are brilliant and will expand my mind a bit. In the case that something strange shows up on the album, I assume that there's a wise reason for it and I try to wrap my head around it. For example, take the way that For Broken Words just sort of ends, without really recapitulating after the bridge. Or how None Becoming, despite being filled with the big ideas that make a great album closer, doesn't have the long buildup or long outro one might expect of a track in that position. There are a lot of weird choices on the album, and reflecting on them is how we grow. In this case, I think the listener in question had to spend some time digging into the album to figure it out, since it's so far outside the metal fold at times, but that doesn't mean she tricked herself into liking it. Sometimes you have to figure out how something could work to see that it most certainly does. Like how chess or sudoku are both really boring games until your brain starts running excitedly down the branches of the game; it's not particularly interesting until you start to get the inner workings.

    Beethoven's a good example of immediate appeal and true depth, but what about Prokofiev? At first listen you might assume he's insane, but finer consideration reveals the magic in his compositions (try Tocatta in C, for piano). How about Ravel's Scarbo? Hugely controversial in its time as an overworked, hyper-technical atonal composition, but spending some time with it lets you see the beauty.

    Dali's a good example of your point, too. I've always loved his Meditative Rose, which has a very shallow, blunt kind of beauty to it (big goddamn rose in a blue sky), but the real mastery is in the details (the dewdrop, the silhouettes, etc). However, what about art that is not beautiful or appealing at first, but which excels on its details? I'm not much for visual arts, but a lot of the more abstract stuff like Picasso or Munch or even the Mona Lisa are very well regarded critically despite the near-complete lack of immediate visual appeal.

    Basically, I think it is possible for work to be unappealing at its surface, but to truly click after a few listens. In the DT case, I think they get most of their fans from the metal community but mix in a lot of elements from outside of it. This is hugely pleasing to those of us in the margins of musical taste (I don't really prefer a particular genre), but it's challenging for many listeners. I think that's a good thing. Those listeners should be challenged to grow, and if they trust DT enough to invest the time to understand and grow their tastes, they should be encouraged to do so.

    Try living in Detroit.
     
  8. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    Really? In a way it's very similar to "Her Silent Language"; I reckon you don't like that one as well?

    I'm not sure about that, the dollar is still the world currency (despite hard times) and the North American tours are so massive I'm sure the bands make plenty of profit, if not we wouldn't be seeing so many touring about here.

    :headbang: I know!!! I got pretty late into that song, but I'm totally addicted to it; I love the change between the heavy chorus riffs and the very industrial ones of the verses.

    That's really sad :( . This is the most diverse album since Projector and heck, it might be even better than it. DT continues experimenting and pushing the boundaries of what (their) metal is because believe me, this album is still very much a metal album; you've always had very atmospheric tracks within DT or tracks that have many parts like that (Inside Part. Storm, Iridium, Terminus, Endless Feed, Senses Tied, etc.). My conclusion is that it's a shame you don't like it; I guess you're very "metal" as Science is very metal (amongst others…), which is obviously not wrong or anything. My suggestion, if you care: listen to more Post Rock :p.
     
  9. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    Nearly everything I said there was based off of an interview with Niklas from a few weeks ago. American tours are break-even propositions unless you're filling venues like In Flames/Amon Amarth do. Smaller tours just don't make much money.

    Of course, all of that was before Construct broke the Billboard 200, so we'll see how it goes.
     
  10. Thimon

    Thimon Member

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    Actually I absolutely love Her Silent Language :lol:
    I a way it is is similar changing from cleans to rough vocals for example...but the transitions are sooooo much smoother in HSL. They musically make sense to my mind so I do not stumble over them.
    In State of Trust it's just a total break of rhythm/style. The former part does not lead up top the latter. It's like going from A to C without passing B.

    Nevertheless State of Trust is incredible :)
     
  11. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    Oh wow really? I've always thought DT would have close-to-full venues, obviously nothing like AA or IF, but I think it still has a relatively large fanbase, especially after Fiction. Oui, we'd have to see how they fare after being on Billboard 200, which I guess it's a first one for DT. Gratts!

    PS: Please post the link to the interview.

    Hmm yes I do understand your point, but even if the change is much more drastic than in HSL, you could say that there's a bridge by almost not having one (as the song almost goes to a full stop), but there's a Bridge there, for sure.
     
  12. MadTinus

    MadTinus Language enthusiast

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    I love Construct, everything about it, the artwork, the whole feeling it radiates. Except maybe the sound is a bit too clean. But that's really all I can complain about. I was pretty partial towards the last 2 albums, but somehow Construct got me curious and my curiosity got rewarded, generously.

    I particularly like the slower songs, Uniformity and None Becoming (amazing album closer), they're both really intense with great, epic melodies to boot. Great vocal work by Stanne, even the cleans are good. I personally don't like Projector at all, his vocals are way overdone and overdramatic there i.m.o. to the point they make me cringe intensely. Yet, when the clean vocals are used as an addition rather than as lead vocals, I really enjoy them. Also he doesn't moan and 'cry' (by lack of better words) like he does on Projector, he just sings and does it very well there.

    Anyway, Construct is one of my favourite albums of 2013 so far.
     
  13. Magrathean

    Magrathean worldbuilder

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    Fuck. The mind's I and We are the void are no longer my favourite DT albums.

    State of trust is beautiful (as is the rest of the album, but this is my favourite song on it). I love the (brilliant) way the bridge seems to slow down to less than half the speed of the rest of the song, yet the actual tempo is more than half that of the rest of the song; this is DT at its best: challenging and deceiving the listener time and again, hiding awesome little details which take many listens to notice but can't be unnoticed afterwards.

    For what it's worth, for a year or two I "wasn't into" (read: "thought it was all right but not all that good") Iridium, which is my favourite song of all time by any band.
     
  14. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    One of, or your favourite one? Interesting comment about the production, I don't find too clean (it's not Emo Burger); seems similar to WAtV.

    YES!!! State of Trust is still my favourite track of the album, Martin B. did a superb job with it. I like the "overdrive" part of the lyrics (geek freebie?).
     
  15. Magrathean

    Magrathean worldbuilder

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    I don't think they did it for the geeks; they are geeks. ;)
     
  16. Defiance

    Defiance I vårens ljusa kvällar

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    Specially The Martins haha.
     
  17. AllShallFall

    AllShallFall Senior Member

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    I'm surprised Immemorial hasn't gotten much love.

    It's a great song!!
     
  18. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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    This is me loving Immemorial:

    SOMETIMES YOU FORGET THAT SINGERS ARE MUSICIANS TOO, BUT THEN YOU HERE MIKAEL STANNE SINGING IN 5/8 IN A CHORUS LIKE THAT OF IMMEMORIAL. LIKE WHAT THE FUCK HOW DOES HE DO THAT. I MEAN, RAPPERS ARE GOOD AT DELIVERING WORDS ON TIME AND THEY DON'T EVEN FUCK AROUND WITH THAT.

    Territorial, Immemorial.
     
  19. stizzleomnibus

    stizzleomnibus Decisively Human

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  20. Autumn Leaves

    Autumn Leaves New Metal Member

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    DT certainly have gotten a bigger fanbase here in America but we all know the majority lies over in Europe (Heck just look at the Live in Milan DVD)

    The reason I would guess is because DT has been going for so many years so that when they initially burst onto the scene they didnt have the benefit of the internet like AA does now (Certainly not to the extent AA has had) and DT's music while most of the time amazing is not the most accessible music in the world because it isn't straightforward. The more immediate your sound the more likely you will be popular (a sad truth I know)
    There is also the fact that DT isn't USA grown. Plus there are very few melodic death metal bands who are actually popular here in the first place (In Flames is popular because they jumped on the Metalcore craze that so many Americans love (and well was pretty much started in America). I dont even think Opeth is that popular here in the US which is a shame (Although their latest album was really lacking imo).
     

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