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A Natural Disaster out on 20th Oct

Discussion in 'Anathema' started by Sopel, Sep 3, 2003.

  1. Achernar

    Achernar Ego-Boosted Southlander

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    lol. I just ordered you to go fuck some monkeys and you wish me a good day? Eheh. That's kewl. Lassen Sie uns die Sprachscheiße beendigen.
     
  2. Sopel

    Sopel the crestfallen

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  3. Achernar

    Achernar Ego-Boosted Southlander

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    Now you're talking! Actualy the polish accent is quite similar to ours. It's weird.
     
  4. Sopel

    Sopel the crestfallen

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    eh? Foda-se is not in polish, it's in portugesse (found it on cussword.com ;-) )
     
  5. Achernar

    Achernar Ego-Boosted Southlander

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    Yeah. I know that of course. I'm just saying this cuz I sometimes watch polish channels on TV. Do you really have to have the same guy speaking throughout whole movies? BOOOORING!
     
  6. tmtk

    tmtk spongie

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    i'd rather like him and the original sound underneath than roger moore speaking polish... bleah!!!

    i guess in portugal you have that german disease - movies dubbed all the way. i surf deutsch channels from time to time and it's sometimes too sad to laugh. mulder sounds like woosie and scully like some helga...
     
  7. Tragicus

    Tragicus Member

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    No dubbed movies in Portugal! Only cartoons are dubbed but they still have a session where its in the original language.
     
  8. Achernar

    Achernar Ego-Boosted Southlander

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    Actually I think I've never seen a movie dubbed in portuguese. Dubbing sucks! Dubbed Cartoons are bearable...dubbed cartoon soundtracks are absolutely unbearable...
     
  9. Strangelight

    Strangelight steak(knife) no more

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  10. Achernar

    Achernar Ego-Boosted Southlander

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  11. tmtk

    tmtk spongie

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    so like subtitles?
    that, i would like.
     
  12. Achernar

    Achernar Ego-Boosted Southlander

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    We have subtitles all the way. Subtitles rule.
     
  13. Allan

    Allan New Metal Member

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    That only explains the initial spread. For example the English language only flourished in India after the English colonisers left. And up until ww2 the dominant 2nd language in Denmark was German.
     
  14. sol83

    sol83 throw it up

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    dubbing films should be a fellony. they say they do it cos the brits, italians, german, french and that are too lazy to read the subtitles. i mean, JESUS FUCKIN' CHRIST! :ill:
     
  15. Malaclypse

    Malaclypse Active Member

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    it's a simple economical point of view. germany, france, italy and so on have enough people that dubbing films is a promising market. noone dubs a film for the finns because they're just too few and the effort would be too big. that's it.
    but i would like to have more subtitles rather than dubs as well. it forces people to learn a bit english after all, and that's exactly what germans and the french would need.
     
  16. Allan

    Allan New Metal Member

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    Perversion of art, to put it a bit harsh and overdramatic.
     
  17. Strangelight

    Strangelight steak(knife) no more

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    what about the centuries of British merchant trading? and that little USA country who speak erm Greek is it?
     
  18. Andy_2003

    Andy_2003 Member

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    us british are barstewards, i hate us, i hate myself!! grrrr
     
  19. Allan

    Allan New Metal Member

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    Exactly. But it was really only with decolonisation and ww2 that English stopped being the language of the ruler and made its way into the natives vocabulary. Pidgin, creoles etc have developed for canturies naturally. But there's no denying the americanisation/globalisation of the world is the main factor today.
     
  20. Allan

    Allan New Metal Member

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    Decided to bore you with a paper I had to do, since it's pretty much what I was saying.


    What is English?
    There are two main reasons for the spread of English: The success of the British in colonising large parts of the earth and the need for a common language of communication between different tribes or countries. With the latter in mind it seems a shame that we now need to talk of different Englishes.

    Historical background- origin and initial spread.
    The Romans suddenly left England in the 5th century leaving way for the Anglo-Saxon invasion, this was the beginning of English. Many Anglo-Saxons, as opposed to the Romans, settled in England and that seems to be the logical reason that English outlived Roman, although Roman continued to be the language of the church and the language of writing even under Anglo-Saxon rule. In 1066 AD England was invaded by the Normans and yet again the top of the social pyramid was cut off and replaced by French, Latin remained the language of the church and of writing. French did not influence the bottom of the social pyramid, English survived for a good 300 years as an unofficial underclass language, this seems ironical considering English had its origin and was to flourish as the language of the conquerors. It wasn’t until 1362 that the Parliament, 162 years after its opening, was addressed in English for the first time. As late as 1860 some writers still wrote in Latin not believing English had a future. The massive vocabulary of English, with at least two words for everything, is mostly due to the influence of French and Latin.
    Some people have tried to argue that the success of English was due to its ability to adopt new words leading to the massive vocabulary and the transparent grammar, but the truth is far less righteous, the real reasons were economic and military..
    England won the race to colonise the New World, being especially dominant in North America and Asia, but also in Africa. The colonisation of Australia was a little different, apparently England had little use for the continent so it was used to get rid of convicts, they were sent to work there in the 18th century. Today you can see similarities between Australian English and 18th century working class English because of this.
    This was the initial spread of English through simple conquest, very similar to the spread of Latin two millenniums earlier.
    But English didn’t die with the breakdown of the British empire as Latin did with the ditto of the Roman. Naturally America continued to speak English because nearly all of the natives had been killed leaving only the former colonisers, most of whom where British. More surprisingly English didn’t just survive but flourished after the independence of India a good two centuries later. There was a growing need for a common language in a country with several native tongues. When the English left the English language was no longer the language of the rulers and oppressors and gradually the Indians made it their own. Going back to the social pyramid, it was allowed in to the lower part. Another way English spread was via pidgins and Creoles, when people needed a common language for simple communication the natural choice was English, success breeds success. An example of this is Krio in Sierra Leone.
    WW2 is a key reason for the success of English. Suddenly England and English stood for righteousness and freedom instead of conquest and oppression. Everybody remembers Churchill’s proud words, talking specifically about the pilots of the Battle of Britain but many people remember them to be about all of Britain, “Never before have so many owed so much to so few”. A good example of WW2’s influence on the reputation of English is how it caused English to replace German as the common third language in Denmark.

    Americanisation- Globalisation of English
    At least since WW2 America has taken over as the dominant factor in spreading English through pure overexposure! Movies, music, the Internet, you name it, America is dominating it. Since the fall of the Soviet Union they have been the most dominant power in history. I wonder how long they will continue calling their language English?
    This has caused American English to threaten other Englishes, a concrete example is the Creole Tok Pisin, spoken in Paraguay and New Guinea, which many think will end up being indistinguishable from American English.
    American even threatens British English, many American words become integrated in the British vocabulary. Writing this assignment I have incidentally used American words not noticing it until a red line disgraced my paper. Teachers continue to protect British by insisting on distinguishing between American and British, but I think with time all Englishes will be overshadowed by American. The differences between American and British English are so small and irrelevant anyway that I don’t really see a point in distinguishing between them.
    The spread of English has been truly phenomenal. In 1500 there were 6.000.000 speakers, all native, of English. Today, a mere 500 years later, there are 300.000.000 with English as their first language, 400.000.000 with English as their second language and 100.000.000 with English as their third language. It is the language of trade, technology and the official corporation language of most companies.

    What is Standard English?
    Standard English is a window on the world, if you are able to speak standard English, you have a chance to communicate with 800.000.000 people around the world.
    It’s hard to state technically what standard English is, but It’s the variety spoken by educated speakers of the language, since they tend to set the standards, it refers to grammar and vocabulary but not to pronunciation. It is the English non-native speakers of English are taught.
    It’s a very vague definition but that is natural seeing that English is global, thus it is hard to standardise. Educated speakers wish to defend standard English to retain their social power, being able to speak this coveted standard English. The other side of the story is described in John Agard’s “Listen Mr Oxford Don”: “I dont need no axe/to split/ up yu syntax/ I dont need no hammer/ to mash up yu grammar” .

    Globalisation’s effect on literature
    Language the backbone of national identity. The English language is no longer confined to England, therefore England can no longer take pride in its great national literatures, the writers are multinational for instance Salman Rushdie. Literature has been globalise as well.
    England suffers the same loss of national identity the colonies suffered long ago: “You ask me what I mean/ by saying I have lost my mother tongue./ I ask you, what would you do/ if you had two tongues in your mouth,/ and lost the first one, the mother tongue,/ and could not really know the other,/ the foreign tongue. ”.
    England has not lost its mother tongue, it just has to share it with the rest of the world, which can be just as bad.

    Relevant Englishes
    American and British English are vital to my social welfare, just turn on the tv and I bet at least half of the shows are American or British. My computer ‘speaks’ English most of the time as well, and most of the books and newspapers I wish to read are in American or British, if not in Danish, as well. Those two are the Englishes I am exposed to and therefore the relevant ones.

    Conclusion
    The English spoken in America, England and Australia is one language. There is no problem in communication between speakers of the three, and the wish to separate the them by the small differences in vocabulary and pronunciation derives from the discussed need for a national identity. In theory all the post colony and Creole Englishes are the same as well, they have just developed a bit differently.
    If the development of the last century continues I think we will all end up speaking an English similar to American English, perhaps slightly influenced by other Englishes. Mass media has made the world a smaller place, in the future it may make it small enough for just one language.
    And actually I don’t think that would be so bad.

    Sources
    1. International English, Peter Trudgil and Jean Hannah., 4th edition, 2002.
    2. Language Change, Jean Atchison, 3rd edition,2001.
    3. Global English, Compendium by Steen Schousboe, 2002.
    4. Various lectures Given at the university of Copenhagen , Fall 2002.
     

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