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Aggressive Atheism

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by JGMetalhead, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. Silver Incubus

    Silver Incubus Dead Hands Justin

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    What is the difference between "thou shalt not murder" and "it's against the law to murder"?

    One gets you put in jail (law)and the other has no effect on you at all(religion). I really can't believe how stupid some the shit that gets put in this thread. Did you really need me to explain that to you???
     
  2. Silver Incubus

    Silver Incubus Dead Hands Justin

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    Have you actually read some of the questions he asked like

    What is the difference between "thou shalt not murder" and "it's against the law to murder"?

    Does that piss you off as a logical thinker to have someone ask you such a pointless question that a microsecond of thinking can solve?

    And what the fuck is a non binding law? Could you explain to me how a law could be non binding?
     
  3. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    You apparently do not understand what a strawman argument is.

    In what way have I misrepresented your position? In what way have I twisted your words? My questions are an attempt to get you to gain consistency in your position, since you are so narrowly focused on the purported dangers of religious dogma, to the exclusion of all else, including the the danger you yourself pose to the freedom of others.

    The issue is not "moot". Have religions advocated the killing of others? Yes. But what system has been responsible for the killing and harming of more persons than government? If all the world were to suddenly renounce their religious beliefs, this would not lead to utopia, since the oppression, murder, abuse, etc. would continue.


    How many did they burn? Rome burned the great Alexandrian library, pre-Catholic era. Not to mention, the libraries in that era were almost entirely comprised of religious writings. So you should be thankful.

    Which brought Muslim(religious) architecture and scientific influence back and helped bring Europe out of the dark ages.

    Yeah, there have been no religious scientists that discovered anything, and no religious people use electricty, the combustion engine, refrigeration, etc. :rolleyes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_scientists

    Notables include Isaac Newton, Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī, and Max Born amongst hundreds of others.



    Like government? What is harmed is people. What is destroyed is freedom. You also seek to destroy freedom by not allowing people to freely associate and hold personal beliefs.

    We could say this about everyone not personally met but written about in history. Hardly a sound argument.


    I never said you did. I asked you to clarify. Again, learn what a strawman is.

    You have backed up weak arguments with nothing. Questions add nothing to an argument? Very amusing. I have opinions. I have hinted at them so far through my questions.

    Opinions are irrelevant if they are not backed up with anything. Just coming in here and ranting and raving and spouting undefendable opinions lacking in context is not discussion, debate, or an exercise in philosophy.

    Further reading:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument
     
  4. Silver Incubus

    Silver Incubus Dead Hands Justin

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    Freedom of others? You have to be joking. Religion is a cancer on society, and the fact that I want to get rid of it is wrong? Sorry don't mean to cure your cancer, I don't want you to miss the opportunity to die a slow and painful death..... get real bud.


    Do you honestly believe the religion has no effect on the government whom primarily is comprised of religious people?
    AND once again, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE WITH THIS?
    Who is talking about Governments here??? Only you bud.
    The dangers of government and Nationalism is a whole other topic.

    Seriously, most governments in the past where run by kings. Kings are supposedly the person GOD chose to rule on earth..... so the name has change in democrazy, but doesn't that just make all those religion fuckheads get a voice that is guided by preachers and popes? Might I add, misguided beliefs on how the world should work.... according to GOD?


    And what is this suppose to prove again? That fire was supposedly made to burn the port, and quite a few scholars think that no library was burned then, just a housing for records for transactions.

    If that is all the excuses you can come up with then you are only grasping at straws to prove your point.


    Do you understand just how often Religion has butted heads with science and lost...... Every single battle.
    Well when it is either be religious like everyone else or be called a witch and burned I think that these people chose the former and feign belief for safety.

    So Copernicus, when he said the galaxy was heliocentric, that the earth went around the sun, do you know what happened because of the church?

    Even today there are christians who denounce the proven fact of evolution. Are you really that naive to think that this type of stupid bible bullshit hasn't been going on since the beginning of the religious movement.

    I bet you that non of those scientist are true believers if they are true scientist. More then likely they are Moderates, and therefore pretenders.



    Religion is not a personal belief., NO person wakes up one morning saying, "I think I'll believe in god today" when they have never had a concept like god shown to them. Your whole premise is ridiculous. You are certainly giving me tons to laugh at with you attempts at rebuttal.

    Or more sound then you care to recognize. Do you know how many people in other religions have the same if not identical stories to all of Jesus' divinity? Being born a virgin is NOT a first with christianity. Raising from the dead can be found right in Egyptian mythology. As well as concepts of an afterlife and judgement. And the list goes on and on but that is something you should look into, as I already have.


    Why would I need to clairify it? It should be self evident from my earlier postings on these types of things.
    So I say:"X is abuse for children."
    You say: "Well Y people do similar kinds of abuse to children."

    So basically what you are missing out on, which should be completely and utterly obvious to you is that Religion IS THE MOTIVATION AND CONVICTION to do those things, whereas druggy parents, and lacklusters whom abuse their children have mental problems not associated the the normal Maternal and Paternal instincts to protect and love(care for unconditionally) your offspring.

    Are you really that stupid, that I have to spell it out for you like a 5 year old. You have a brain, try to use it and come to your own conclusions logically.
    No, not any questions, YOUR STUPID questions, which you should be able to answer yourself with logic applied to it.


    So you finally get it. Your are not participating in this debate properly. non defensible opinions? Lacking IN context? The Context is Atheism, you fucking moron. All of my stance are based on Non religion, is this topic just too complex for you to understand?
    I could cite everything from one book
    Here is further reading for you
    ATHEIST MANIFESTO by Michel Onfray.

    Oh, but I don't need to because I have a vast and extensive list of anti- religious musings.
     
  5. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    Pretty humble of you to ignore how you falsely accused me of a strawman attack (sarcasm). You chafe under the restriction of your freedom posed by religious zealots, yet you respond with the same violence in turn. You do not want freedom, you want to impose your vision on the world. How are you any better than the militant religious?

    It is a different topic, what I am doing is pointing out the parellels and relativity in action and results. Religion does not affect government, it is government that affects religion. Constantine is an easy example. 501C3 status is another easy modern example.

    Who told the people the kings were chosen by god? The kings. The priests on their payroll.


    Ok. let us assume, for the sake of argument, that you are correct. So list some other, more legitimate libraries full of scientific, non religious information that were burned by religious people. I am curious. Are there any?

    Is what I said not correct?


    Can you prove this? I doubt it. Therefore this is inadmissible in an argument. This reminds me of this dialogue:

    Ah yes. I agree. The church is evil, and this is just one of many evils. Did what he say conflict with the Bible though? The Quran? The Torah? The Talmud? etc.

    It can't be duplicated was not observed. It is the leading theory which has yet to be disproved. No other theory has as much evidence at the time. That does not make it a scientifically proven fact, like nuclear fission for instance.

    See my black swan reference.


    Amusing. If this premise were true, then where did the idea come from? According to this statement, no one could imagine such a thing. Therefore, at some point, an actual god must have revealed himself.

    Conversely, if independent original ideas are impossible, then there would have never been any inventions.

    And? "Some guy who wrote music. Lots of people wrote music. How do I know Beethoven existed and it wasn't some other guy writing the music."

    I am quite aware of the similarity between Christianity and other "Dying God" religions. David Livingstone outlines many of them in his book, "The Dying God". :) Of course, he is Muslim, so this might create a paradox for you.

    You still do not understand. You submitted the argument that behaving in a certain way due to commands given by a god or religious group are child abuse.

    My question is: If the command is the same as given by a secular organization, how is this command child abuse? Either you are suggesting that the command itself is child abuse, or that teaching the basis for the command is child abuse.

    If it is the former, how is "thou shalt not/do not commit murder" child abuse (for instance). If it is the motivation that is taught [invisible man commands (eternal afterlife consequences)/arbitrary secular laws(physical consequences)] that is child abuse, what is the difference as long as the result is the same?

    You take questions as an attack. This is a sign of immaturity and a weak position. Simply plainly state your position, and clarify when requested. Discussion is for learning.

    I see no traces of logic in your arguments or attempts at rebuttal, and therefore cannot use it to understand your arguments.

    Then what would be a non-stupid question? Please give an example. As I stated before, I cannot understand the illogical. This is why I pose questions.

    The context is Aggressive Athiesm. I am questioning it's purpose and foundation by comparing religion to other, potentially more pertinent societal ills.

    You continue with the ad hominem attacks. Your preceding paragraph contains but one of many in this post I am responding to. Your lack of civility discredits and sheds doubt on the benevolence and intent of your motives.

    Ah. Would you say it was your Bible? What are these other writings?
     
  6. Lugreech

    Lugreech Member

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    I Haven't read anything XDD
    but here is my opinion about religion:
    -I think everybody can believe in what they one they want even in the flying pigs ( like the pink floyd one) the important thing is the respect... people will never be in peace if they think that the only right thing is what they say. I can believe in whatever i want but i cannot follow somebody with a book and tell him that i am right and that he or she will die in hell.

    Extremely religions people are the same shit than aggressive atheism people . again you CANNOT go around and say to everybody that they are motherfuckers or Jackass beacuse they dont think like you!. of course people that use another people ignorance or true faith ( it exist there are people who really believe no all priests and believers are pedophiles) to earn money are the biggest shit.

    - Religion doesn't make you stupid..not always, Of course some people don't analyze what its around them ( extremely religious ideas that are dangerous in different life aspects ) , but it doesn't mean they are jackass, if just they don`t have the enough wherewithal or education.

    I'm not into any religion, but in my family and friends i know people who is atheist, catholic, hare Krishna, buddhism, agnostic, evangelist ,etc.
    Some of them are motherfuckers , others great people.

    Religion doesn't made you good or bad person.

    And again i say: the important think is the respect! i don't think religion is the cancer of the society, if there weren't religion , we have political ideas or millions of subjects where we cannot be agree , people will continue fighting... the cancer of the society is the selfishness ... thinking that we always have the right and that the others cannot believe or think in a different way.
     
  7. Vimana

    Vimana Member

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    I think the world would be more peaceful without religion, but not utopian. It's really not that much of a leap of logic to assume that with one less thing to disagree on, people would fight less.
     
  8. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    It really doesn't matter how many things are disagreed on. It matters how people handle it.
     
  9. Vimana

    Vimana Member

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    That is true, but it also depends on the thing being disagreed on.
     
  10. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    I think it's important they handle it with irrational dogmatism and nuclear weapons. Do you agree?

    Some disagreements matter :lol:
     
  11. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    "Whether or not you are as human as I" is usually the one that results in violence.
     
  12. Vimana

    Vimana Member

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    But it's also been "whether you worship the real god or not," too. A lot of Muslim conquest was based on that.
     
  13. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    As were the Crusades. At least that is the line sold to the armies. It's always about power for the leaders though.
     
  14. Vimana

    Vimana Member

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    But with less things at one's disposal to sway people into battle, it's not outlandish to assume less battles would be occurring.
     
  15. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    Excuses can always be found. THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS!
     
  16. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    Religion is a wheelchair for the crippled mind
    and Christianity works perfet for that description of religion
    when tornadoes/hurricanes destroy your place to live, when serial killers slaugher your loved ones, things like this make it difficult for some people to live as atheist and Christianity works perfect for alieviating (or at least seeming to) PTSD
     
  17. Prismatic Sphere

    Prismatic Sphere We Carouse

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    If only religion, Jesus, et al was something revealed to only those who were old and wise enough to fully understand(instead of foisted on helpless and weak kids), and thus was something to be earned and thus such knowledge given to only those who truly came into their own; I wonder how many would actually subscribe to it.

    No, I don't wonder at all. That number would be zero.
     
  18. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    i consider this brain-washing
     
  19. Prismatic Sphere

    Prismatic Sphere We Carouse

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    Indeed. I consider it child abuse.
     
  20. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    yes
    brainwashing a child is child abuse
    brainwashing an adult is "psychologically abusing the mentally handicapped"
     

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