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And the new Into Eternity / Blackguard is...

Discussion in 'ProgPower USA' started by Palabra de Dios, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. Palabra de Dios

    Palabra de Dios Heavy Metal Weatherman

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    ...BLACK CROWN INITIATE.

    After already providing support for Behemoth/Goatwhore, and then Rivers of Nihil in 2014, and then Napalm Death/Voivod/Iron Reagan earlier this year, these guys are opening yet another tour, with Deicide and Entombed:

    DEICIDE To Headline Fifth Annual 'Metal Alliance' Tour

    They're a decent enough prog/djent band, but it's almost tour overkill I'd think. Seems like there's always a band that just ends up as the de-jour tour opener every few years.
     
  2. orcslayr23

    orcslayr23 Member

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    I agree. With me, it's pretty rare that any perpetual openers tickle my fancy. I briefly got into Blackguard and Into Eternity, but I lost interest rather quick. Powerglove was entertaining the first time I saw them, but by the third time I found them really annoying. I loved Mutiny Within before they were even signed, but of course they imploded.

    Can anyone think of any examples of bands that had a few years of perpetual opening pay off? Honestly it seems like most of those kind of bands either die off (due to tour exhaustion possibly lol) or they just never move beyond the level they are at.
     
  3. TribunalRecords

    TribunalRecords Record Label(s)/Vocalist

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    it's touring or spending THOUSANDS of dollars on advertising campaign to get people to listen to their music. So as a musician which would you rather do? Play the music you created or pray an advertisement works.

    Don't fault a band for working hard, just because you don't like it. They are out there working and you act as if touring is an easy life. It's not. If you get bored by a band you see more than once then obviously they aren't for you, but maybe it works for someone else and then they make a fan for life.

    Nobody complains when bands like Angra and Evergrey play this festival 4 and 5 times (I didn't even watch Evergrey one year because I was tired of seeing them), but it is exactly the same concept, but festival level. Every band has to start somewhere and get the exposure started, but they will never know how big they get if they don't get out there and try.
     
  4. dcowboys311

    dcowboys311 Member

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    Seeing the same band 4 to 5 times spread out over 10 to 12 years is far from "exactly the same concept" as seeing the same band 4 to 5 times spread out over 10 to 12 months, my friend. And those bands play frequently because they are in demand. The opening bands play frequently because they are not (yet).
     
  5. TribunalRecords

    TribunalRecords Record Label(s)/Vocalist

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    Well, before PP and what Glenn has accomplished none of these bands were touring the US. But granted, it's a bit a of stretch on my end but I still felt the same "ugh" a few of those Evergrey years.

    But as they got bigger from PP appearances (because the second was incredible in my limited memory) and more touring and money being put behind them they got bigger. Not all bands can do it, but back to my original point you cannot fault them for trying or else what is the point? (Studio projects aside).
     
  6. Mardoch

    Mardoch Defender of the Universe

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    The reason they get poked at is because of overexposure. Seeing them opening a couple decent tours a year = good. Seeing them opening 3/5 tours all year, /groan.

    No one is arguing against them touring.
     
  7. skyrefuge

    skyrefuge Member

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    Blackguard's December 10 2014 Facebook post:
    ....Anyone familiar with the band over the last few years knows we kept a pretty hectic touring schedule for many years, unfortunately that took its toll on the band physically, mentally and financially.

    After completing the Finntroll/Metsatoll tour we collectively decided to take a year off in order to regroup and refocus. That year is up, things have changed but we're motivated to move forward and bring you all our best record to date and some touring in the coming year.

    The first and most significant change is that Blackguard has officially parted ways with Victory Records....



    Sounds like at least Blackguard, in retrospect, wishes they would have gone with burning that money on advertisements instead...
     
  8. TribunalRecords

    TribunalRecords Record Label(s)/Vocalist

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    haha, like Victory would have given them the money for ads that it takes to get bands to the next level?! not likely. They do preliminary advertising and then the bands have to tour and generate hype and good record sales before they actually invest in a band beyond what is basic deal for everyone. it's really a double edged sword because BG could have toured and become huge and then they would have just had to sue Victory later to get back royalties owed like every other major act who has left the label.

    Also nowhere in there statement does is say they regret all the road-dogging. Just implies the hard work (as in any hard work) took it's toll on them so they needed a break. Probably took them that year to convince Victory to let them out of their contract because no label the size of Victory signs bands for one album.
     
  9. PureXul

    PureXul Member

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    I'm not going to fault a band for working hard, I respect the hell out of road warriors, but I absolutely will objectively say that bands need to know when they're wasting their time, money, and effort. After opening three national tours, a band has probably hit every major and mid-major market in North America at least once, and they've probably hit certain metro areas on all three tours (LA, Chicago, NY). If on tour four they're not seeing any increased merch sales, crowd response, or demand or their music, booking tours five and six is probably not a smart decision.

    Obviously I have no idea if Blackguard or Into Eternity or anyone else believes it was worth it, only they're privy to that information. However, I have a hard time respecting hard work just for the sake of trying really hard. You could put a ton of effort into digging a hole to China but would you expect a pat on the back for that? If a band can't tell when the law of diminishing returns kicks in, they're doing something wrong.
     
  10. Palabra de Dios

    Palabra de Dios Heavy Metal Weatherman

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    I don't dislike the band, actually. I bought their EP directly from them when they opened for Goatwhore, and think it's pretty damn solid. I think the same of some of those Into Eternity albums too. But my comment is mostly about overexposure, which leads to groaning as someone already put it, and also that it seems odd to me that as these tours are booked there always seems to be one band in a cycle of tours each few years that becomes the "token opener" on all these tours.

    On a personal level, it would excite the shit out of me to be on those tours if I was in that band. On an audience level, I see them on yet another tour bill and I'm like...yeah, I don't really need to get to the show early that day. I'd probably skip seeing my favorite bands if they toured through my area twice a year. It's just the way it is.
     
  11. AngraRULES

    AngraRULES Member

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    I can see the benefits of touring a lot like these guys are doing. At the same time, public perception is a VERY powerful thing, and once a band is tagged (en-masse) as the "New Into Eternity" or "New Blackguard" (no disrespect at all meant to those bands), it's really hard to change that.

    I want to see a band be active when it comes to touring... but you have to tour smart too.
     
  12. AeonicSlumber

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    Is it just me or is this tour package WAYYY smaller than last year's, which had Behemoth and 1349? Deicide and Entombed I feel like would be lucky to pull 300 people a night.

    On topic though: this kind of thread always bothers me a lot, as I pointed out in the Blackguard thread from a few years ago from the Trollcago squad - it's always weird how people pick and choose one specific "new" band that tours a lot as *THE* new band that tours alot. As if there is in fact, only ONE new band that does 3/4/5 tours a year every time the planets align even though it's something that tons and tons of bands always do. OP mentioned Rivers of Nihil, which has probably done wayyy more touring over the last few years than Black Crown Initiate, but I don't see them being discussed. Same with every band on Sumerian Records that does like 5 tours a year because everyone at the label is a booking agent. It's like some weird selective dissonance that happens with these things.

    It's also worth noting that different tours cover different markets, BIG packages like metalalliance or what have often split off into "off dates" or side tours so that the smaller bands on the bill can make money or prevent losing more money than necessary, and that show attendances have been in the decline these days so sometimes bands have to more shows to pull more weight.
     
  13. Palabra de Dios

    Palabra de Dios Heavy Metal Weatherman

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    Maybe they'll open Paganfest and Summer Slaughter too. C'mon, dude, I'm sure you understand what I'm saying here. I'm not criticizing the band for touring a whole lot or working hard. But I am pointing out that there always seems to be a "chosen band" for true metal tours that seems to be the first to play on all these mid-major tours.

    And I do intentionally use the phrase "true metal," because I don't pay attention to metalcore or deathcore tours, or what Sumerian records has to offer. It's just not on my radar.
     
  14. Mardoch

    Mardoch Defender of the Universe

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    Worst tribalistic phrase to be coined by anyone having anything to do with metal.

    If my making an offhand joking remark about Dawkins not being metal is worth pillory I don't see why anyone gets to use that sophomoric exclusionary crapterm. "I don't care for x style" does not mean "X style is excluded from the reality of metal."
     
  15. AeonicSlumber

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    I see you missed my point. Even in true metal, it's not just "one" band that does 200 shows a year. It's a pretty common thing among many bands. Starkill, Wretched, and Rivers of Nihil did insane amounts of touring last year too. Bands like Warbringer and Toxic Holocaust were doing 200+ shows a year easy at one point. One of my favorite bands of the last whatever decade, Unexpect, used to do an INSANE amount of touring. Shit, I mean for a while, fucking Sabaton and Behemoth were doing almost an entire YEAR's worth of touring all over the world every YEAR but there's no issue about that in here.
     
  16. Palabra de Dios

    Palabra de Dios Heavy Metal Weatherman

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    You are very right about all those bands. Dude - fucking Unexpect is awesome. And to my point, I am less likely to see those bands on repeated concerts because of over-touring. Warbringer is actually a good example of that. Love the band, but there's no desire to see them five times in a year. But yeah okay maybe it's not just ONE band that seems to pop up, but a cycle of a couple bands perhaps? In any event, does it really pay off? Unexpect for instance, have remained way off the radar since they were doing all that touring for the In a Flesh Aquarium album. Black Dahlia Murder used to be on seemingly every tour too, now they're a headliner, so I think it paid off for them.

    And I have spoken to dudes in Warbringer before, specifically John, they say that the touring regimen is EXHAUSTING. But that's what it takes to make money making music I guess.

    I think the original point of the thread though was exasperation. Oh wow, another tour with Black Crown Initiate in the opening spot. Woo. I'm just not as jacked about seeing them now that I've seen them three times in about a year.
     

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