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Bass.

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by koalamo, May 12, 2011.

  1. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    I know there's like a million topics on this already and trust me I've read them all but I still struggle with this in my mixes more than anything else.

    I know it's subjective and depends on the song and all that jazz but I feel like alot of the newer guys and even some more seasoned veterans could benefit from this

    Where do you guys put your bass guitar and how do you balance your low end? GENERALLY SPEAKING!

    I know everyone is always like ooooo depends on the song and ooooo you'd be surprised how little low end is actually from the bass blah blah so I don't want to be surprised anymore I want frequencies and filter types side chain settings, pictures, detail. In general what do you find yourself usually doing in a typical project?

    Here I'll start though I doubt anyone will want this as im the one with the shitty low end
    usually ill duplicate the bass tracks run one through x30 and the other I'll keep clean then take the original track and take a huge scoop at around 600 hz I'd say like 8 or 9 db with a wide q then low pass at 2k next I'll take the distorted track and high and low pass at 600 hz and 2k respectively and then limit both tracks and lower the distorted by 5 db

    Next I mix them both on a bus track and use ampeg boost the lows and the mids on whatever model sounds best than cla comp with a slow attack fast release and then into another limiter which is pulling about 8 to 10 db of gain reduction at all times with the release set to about 150.

    Now lately I've been high passing my bass at around 100 hz with a 6db/octave filter and having the kick sit around 70 with a wide q and a 5 db or so boost and I'll boost my bass around 160 or so ala Andy sneap and also boost it around 800 hz to get more of the midrange to sit with the guitars.

    Than I dip about 5 db out with a wide q at about 300 or 250 hz and low pass the bass at 2k and then add a side chain comp which takes off about 4 or 5 db gr at best with an attack setting of 1 and a release of 100 which I bypass for the faster parts.

    For guitar I high pass at about 80 with a 6db/octave filter and then cut about 5 or 6 db with a wide q at 160 or so and then again at 300 or so...

    So yeah come on guys, Write a novel. Let's end these threads once and for all and get this shit stickied!!!!! Whoseeeee with me!!!!!!!????? Lolgonnagetflamedanyway
     
  2. Habsburgs

    Habsburgs Member

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    ooooooooo ooooooooo ooooo :lol:
     
  3. Morgan C

    Morgan C MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯

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    You're highpassing your guitars lower than your bassguitars and wondering why your lowend sucks?
     
  4. damas

    damas Member

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    i have an account for years now. didnt use it really much cuz i almost quit music and related stuff BUT 2 months were enough for me to understand that NO ONE can give you settigs that will fit your instruments, tuning, arrangement, tone of: guitars, kick, hell the hole kit, maybe some synths, ah btw no one even knows the tone of your bass guitar to begin with...... NO ONE can know this things, how are people supposed to know how your stuff sounds??? posting a clip will be like 1000 times more of a help in the end instead telling 1000 parameters and settings.

    btw imo the most problems appear in the 80 hz - 300 hz region. dont ask for concrete frequencies, asking for frequency INTERVALS can sometimes be helpfull on the other hand.

    listen to lets say one single element of your arrangement and ask yourself: what does suck about its sound? ringing, tuby, flat, harsh, fizz, air, gettingonyournervesforsomereason? FIND THE BASTARD THATS GIVING YOU THE PROBLEM! WHICH FREQUENCY CAUSES YOUR TRACK TO SOUND SHIT?
    i dont think that mixing is for sculpting the TONE of an instrument (even if you can do so) but more for solving problems caused by recording, tracking and fitting the instruments in the mix.

    btw i think ermz writes a "how do mix bass?" at the moment.

    why do you highpass the bass higher than guitars?? try to shelf intervals, then highpass........if i would boost my bass at 160 hz, my last mix i did yesterday would die......

    but GENERALY SPEAKING:
    1 track di->hpf (depends), lpf where distorted di is hpf, maybe a little lower..., compress or/and limit, eq
    1 track di->hpf where lpf of the dry di track is, maybe a little higher..... than add distortion (chose anything that sounds good, be it ampeg, revalver, ANYTHING), eq, compress and/or limit (depends)
    blend them to taste->group
     
  5. Fama

    Fama Member

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    I suggest you try Juicy 77 for the distortion tones, I've gotten surprisingly good distortion for bass out of that plugin, although I probably wouldn't use it for guitar.

    Oh, and yeah, post clips.

    Also, import some reference songs to your mixing project, turn down the volume so it matches your song and then A/B them to see how your bass compares to the reference.
     
  6. SimonTaddio_Qc

    SimonTaddio_Qc Headbanger

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    Just a quick tip, don't know if that'll help.
    When mixing, use the MID/SIDE techniques and make sure that ALL the bass is dead center of the stereo field.
    After analyzing the stereo image of a couple record these last days (as I just got into the M/S monitoring/mixing a couple weeks back), I can tell that there's pretty much NOTHING AT ALL under 100-120hz in the stereo field for a lot of recordings (i.e NO BASS).
    Maybe that'll help you (or anyone, for that matter) keep it more focused a bit.
     
  7. DanLights

    DanLights Santa Hat Forever

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    you can't say GENERALLY SPEAKING and speak uhm... specifically.
     
  8. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    Generally speaking as in what do you usually find yourself doing most frequently....?? Pretty sure I said that. Thanks for being constructive man, I appreciate it!
     
  9. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    Well like for instance Andy sneap posted alot of stuff about where he generally finds himself boosting and cutting I'm not looking for like oh you need to boost precisely 251.5 hz with a .7 q you know what I mean I'm just trying to figure out what other people are doing so that I have something to reference to know that say I'm not insane for highpassing a bass higher than guitars (which obviously I am) it's just nice to have something relatively concrete to start from when your still learning to use your ears as I've only had a few months of actual experience. I understand it's very hard for people to just give settings without hearing the source material but would it be easier if I was like "what were some of the settings you used in your last project?"....I'm not looking to just straight up copy them just as a guidline as to what works to keep in the back of my head as opposed to blindly tweaking parameters on a parametric and pretending that my untrained ears can hear a difference. That being said I also feel that my mid range has alot of problems too due to my lack of knowledge on how much to scoop out before it sounds dull



    And yeah that's exactly what I mean I've heard people say that there is very little bass guitar involved in the low end of metal music And then people make a huge deal that I'm highpassing at 100 hz but no one cares to elaborate on this or anything for that matter but thanks for posting something constructive how do you analyze m/s of certain songs, if I may ask?
     
  10. Severu

    Severu No SSL for you!

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    Whatever the tone, it needs more SSL. :headbang:
     
  11. SimonTaddio_Qc

    SimonTaddio_Qc Headbanger

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    You may.
    I use Brainworx Solo (free and MUST-have) for monitoring either the center image in solo, or the LR channels with the center muted.
    Izotope Ozone has the MID/SIDE option in the upper-right corner that you can check (for example on the parametric EQ), wich switches between either EQ on the center field, the L/R channels only, or both combined, as you'd normally do with a regular EQ.

    That way, you can process the sides separately from the center, which is very cool.
    You could also do that to add reverb only on the L/R channels and not the center, or whatever your heart compels you to, as I said I just got into this technique a couple weeks ago, but it's definitely worth it to check it out for yourself.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12811539/ozone MS mode.bmp
    EDIT: the blue line is the EQ line for the sides, the orange one is for the center image

    As for analyzing records and their stereo fiels, I just use brainworx bx_solo 1st in the plugin chain, then put on a freq analyser (I use blue cat) to see how things change from the middle to the sides when I solo/mute things in the image field. Works fine
     
  12. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    Lolz I give up on this thread already fuck it should known better.


    p0d pr3s3tz plzzz???
     
  13. Severu

    Severu No SSL for you!

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    And joking aside, get a very good bass (you can never go wrong with a good Precision or Jazz) and a Sansamp. Or two. Rackmounts worked better for me, RPM or RBI or PSA. Use one as a clean amp sim and the other one for dirt (or the same one and reamp the bass with two different settings. Keep it clean on the lows and bring the grit on the highs. Should get ya movin pretty fast.

    It should work with soft ampsims as well but I never bothered since I have the real onez. Oh yeah and always HP/LP the bass.
     
  14. Severu

    Severu No SSL for you!

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  15. recycle

    recycle Member

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    ...probably not what you want to hear, but new strings is critical! You also need a good bass. What bass do you use?
     
  16. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    Well for this specific thing I'm mixing now it's to rich minervas tracks he posted recently but I find I'm having the same problem with every mix I do no matter if it's something I recorded or something on this forum so I know that there are some things about eq and processing that must be relatively static. However when I do track bass for bands or myself or whatever I have a fender jazz just changed the strings about two weeks ago and they're going through a radial j48 di into my saffire pro so idt that's the problem.
     
  17. recycle

    recycle Member

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    I have to admit that im not 100% happy with my own bass tone either, and I am still searching for THE bass tone.
    Personally I have found out that i get the best results when i leave the eq section on my bass (stingray) almost flat except for a little mid scoop. I also blend a high pass and lowpass signal as you do, but i am cutting heavy in the 300hz area. Hipass at 50hz lo pass at 6000khz on the bass track buss.
    I am also not crushing it with compression(as many others do), only 1 cl1b with slow attack and med release, 4:1. I actually like it when the bass breaths a bit in the mix:)

    btw, im using a MXR M80... sold my sansamp after i got this one...

    just my 0.000002 cents...

    Hope you find your tone :)
     
  18. koalamo

    koalamo Member

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    Thank you mate exactly what I was looking for a fresh new perspective to experiment with and I tracked a stingray awhile ago, great bass no doubt! :)
     
  19. damas

    damas Member

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    in fact i have a shit bass sound too and use it always to just fill up space and give to guitars tha ballz. for metall i would most likely slam the shit out of bass. if i dont this instrument jumps all around making my kicks sub coming thru or not and makes things simply muddy. for ambient stuff such approach would be simply retarded.

    which ratio? cant tell... i usually set the ratio and release to max the attack to shortest possible. adjust the threshhold so that the shit is compressed a lot. find an attack that fits, then find a release that fits or "breathes" with the tempo/song, then adjust the ratio. last thing is done is threshold...limiting(fast attack, long release) is also necessary. take all my advices with a grain of salt cuz im a noob too and am doing this for 3 months in a more serious way. btw ive found that listening and reading about "who does eq where" even stopped my progress. i find myself to do the following with the bass: i cut like 7 dbs with a q of lets say 5 in the 90 - 400 hz region and sweep around, till the overall sound of the mix is kinda balanced (hard to describe) and then back of some dbs and change the q (a reference will help here). same with the mids but instead of cutting i boost and then back of some dbs. lpf is most likely at.....dunno, depends..... 2,5 khz? if the bass is destorted like fuck. btw i dont know if you are insane for hpf the bass at 100 but if it sounds good...why not? dont underestimate the power of rolling off/shelving shit......

    best thing to do is imo to read thru ermz systematic mixing guide. i think thats exactly what you are looking for. he describes how certain frequency intervals do certain problems or vice versa. too bad the how do mix bass isnt there yet......

    btw how do quotes? no seriously.......

    ah btw for destortion i use revalver, guitars and bass
     
  20. Ascendant

    Ascendant Member

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    Don't underestimate amp into bass cabs, even impulses. Don't be afraid to experiment with guitar impulses either for grit.
     

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