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Being loved makes you stronger

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Norsemaiden, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

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    I am sure this is true and it works even if you don't necessarily reciprocate that love.

    I googled the above phrase and was surprised that nothing came up. Plenty of "what does not kill you makes you stronger" though.

    The thing is knowing someone loves you for yourself and not just because they want something from you. And not a situation where you think maybe they love you but it doesn't feel reliable or sincere enough.

    There's something very special and reassuring about that.

    Any thoughts?

    Here's another idea to do with this: I think you can love your ex but because you love them without a personal sense of neediness for them, you are not possessive about them and you wish them well for the future - although you still want them to know you care deeply for them and will always "be there" for them (which may or may not include becoming a couple again in a hypothetical future). And that would be really helpful psychologically for the ex to know that at times when things might be going wrong in other relationships or life generally.

    And then love from family members makes you feel stronger too.

    In a lot of ways we act so as to maintain this, and not lose that love.

    I'm rambling a bit here. Can anyone tell me if there's a particular philosopher that made a similar point?
     
  2. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    I'm not convinced of this 'loving you for your self' stuff... I'm not sure it is just a failing of me either :) In conditions where it is not so much a partnership, such as with children or with an ex, I can understand this sense of 'love' disconnected from any behavioural expectations - they become fixed as a 'thing' in our mind, their actions cannot change their status to us. In a loving partnership, where some ideal of 'love given freely over and over', (not because of some notion of loyalty or oath given) for that love to be given freely to the other person as 'themselves' and not a concept it seems necessary that they act within certain boundary conditions - if they act outside such a boundary the state of love 'freely' given is in danger / ended.

    I guess it is kind of reassuring to be loved as a concept - no matter how you act there will always be a level of support available for you. By the same token though, to be loved *only* as a concept would seem a little deflating - to think that *who I am* (defined by *how I act*) is of no import to one who loves me, makes that love a little pale and tasteless :)
     
  3. SouthernTrendkill

    SouthernTrendkill Super Normie

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    There were these girls I loved in high school and even though they didn't give a shit about me, just having them in my mind gave me so much strength that I ended up not needing anybody. All I needed was the idea of these people in my head and I felt good about myself.
     
  4. 10293847

    10293847 Member

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    This is an interesting post. I suppose everything can be brought down to the idea itself, regardless of whether it is real or not. If one takes this to it's logical extreme, there is a danger that one begins to question everything around them, and then reality becomes only the ideas in your mind. Your life is completely falling apart, yet your delusional mind doesn't see it. Kind of a scary thought.

    In regards to the topic of this thread, I very much agree that Love makes one stronger. I don't think that this should be a surprise to anyone. Man does everything, and has accomplished everything that is great, through love.
     
  5. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

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    What you are talking about is a bit different to what I was. What you refer to here is the concept of unconditional love. Unconditional love hardly exists since pretty much everyone would stop loving someone or something if they behaved in a particularly abhorrent way.

    What I meant about loving someone for who they arewas in comparison to loving them because of what they do for the person giving the love - ie.as a possession or a source of some kind of reward.

    There is an idea: I don't love you because I need you, but need you because I love you. And that is supposed to be the best attitude, but I think you can go beyond that and get rid of the "need" aspect altogether, loving someone without any personal needs being a motive at all. Entirely a pleasure in giving. Perhaps this would still include a need to give rather than a need to have that person acknowledge you.

    Southern Trendkill seemed to be expressing a need to give love and a pleasure in that giving in itself. That was very interesting. My orginal post wasn't about the pleasure of giving unreciprocated love, but rather that if you know someone (or some others) do love you then it makes you feel stronger.

    Unreciprocated love is most usually associated with pain and ruination - but in some ways it could be a stress that when overcome makes you stronger. I can't remember the quote exactly or who said it, but someone in literature once said that it was a valuable experience to feel the pain of unreciprocated love at some time in your life. Of course there's the famous line by Tennyson "better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all". But you can bear the unreciprocated love of someone you're nuts about better if you know you are at any rate loved by someone else - avoiding a feeling of utter rejection.

    In fact I have never had this pain of unreciprocated love, but can emphasise with how powerful it must be. It's one of those "stuck" feelings that have to be transcended. Some people probably get some kind of miserable enjoyment out of it though and don't even try to get over it.
     
  6. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Yes, the strongest I ever was would have been when my daughter was young. Lots of will power then, oddly enough she was also responsible for taking the wind out of my sails when she became was 15. Another time I was very strong was during the best relationship of my past life, which was not the mother of my daughter but the girl before. Also oddly enough when that relationship soured I fell pretty hard as well and she did her best to cut me up and make me insecure about who I was. Now Im currently in a new relationship that I have very positive feelings about and things are clicking very well and Im finally starting to find my old self again. So yes people need someone that loves them... that they also love, to build each other up and stand behind each other. Someone to believe in that also believes in your abilities and nurtures your strenght.

    I suppose the truely selfish and self centered dont need anyone and most likely no one wants them anyhow.
     
  7. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    There is an idea: I don't love you because I need you, but need you because I love you. And that is supposed to be the best attitude, but I think you can go beyond that and get rid of the "need" aspect altogether, loving someone without any personal needs being a motive at all. Entirely a pleasure in giving. Perhaps this would still include a need to give rather than a need to have that person acknowledge you.[/QUOTE]

    This was what I was referring to - can you separate 'loving someone for who they are' from 'loving someone for how they act'? Is someone other than how they act? The whole love partnership thing seems to be about providing mutual rewards...

    Love without any 'need' attached seems to be just finding something to latch on to and love for the sake of it, not because of how the person is.

    Sartre talks interestingly on the matter - suggesting we want freedom to become love, and continue to do so ad infinitum (as it is not love if it is not given freely) but paradoxically want it to also chain itself to the 'Other', such that the 'Other' becomes a fixture upon which further values are considered...

    I put forward this view of love because it is how I find it... looked at objectively, I find love makes me 'weaker' in a sense - I can 'cope' with hardship easier, (never really a problem anyway) but am far more comfortable at home 'in the nest' and do not push myself as hard.
     
  8. Uroborus

    Uroborus I am the ARM

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    I can 100% fully relate. No matter how horribly bad I could be feeling or how awful a day could be going seeing said "girl" or having her in mind would somehow make me and my day all the better.

    So I believe you don't necessarily have to be loved to make you stronger, but being in LOVE and sharing a spiritual connection that you can have and call your own. I believe that in it's own can have equal merit and make someone all the more stronger, if you allow it.
     
  9. Anvil

    Anvil Brain Bubbled

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    Love is a bi-product of our primal sexual urges. Possession as well, is a primal urge, which in turn creates an emotional attachment to one whom you feel strongly attracted to.

    Obviously love has become a lot more complicated than primal urges, but it's still the basis of our existence. To survive and continue our species.

    Love does make us stronger, since it gives us a sense of purpose. A feeling of belonging, and a mate.
     
  10. I-TEND-TO-DIE

    I-TEND-TO-DIE leave this world behind

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    yeah that's a very interesting point I also think that if you realize someone likes you it really gives you power.
     
  11. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    I do find that it makes you stronger, just knowing that you have someone that cares about you gives you a certain feeling of security, knowing that you are not alone in this world. I've come to this conclusion by watching how people act according to their relationship status; usually guys who are single (specially early on in life) and that have never been in a relationship before, feel un-accomplished or empty, some even tend to feel depressed or have suicidal thoughts 'cause no one likes them.

    This also ponders the question, are these feelings a by-product of our animal instincts of reproduction? or are these feelings just related to our need of having someone to walk with us through life?
     
  12. The Creator of Failure

    The Creator of Failure The Wanderer

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    I like the topic, and it's true. There was a time when I loved a girl and she loved me as well, that's the only period of true happiness I can think of in my entire life. I never felt better and I never felt more alive, I cared a lot about lots of different stuff, it gave me the will to go forward and live, I did a lot of things to kind of make her feel proud of me, not to feel that she's with a failure... But then her feelings changed and everything got fucked up. I still love her, after 15 months, and I miss her because I've changed a lot without her. I don't give a fuck about many things that are important for me, I keep making my life worse, I completely lost will for everything, I feel like everything I do is pointless so I never really do anything... It can be noticed even in small things - my room is constantly in chaos because I feel no need to clean it, sometimes I don't shave in up to 20 days and lots of similar stuff, I even screwed the first year at college due to my lack of will. And I feel it all would greatly change if I got a new girlfriend, but someone I'd really love a lot (and who would, of course, love me as well). However, that's not easy in my case... especially since I feel like that girl was the best I could ever get so it's very hard for me to find someone better than her, and even harder to find someone better than her who would also like me.

    "The greatest happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved; loved for ourselves, or rather, loved in spite of ourselves." - Victor Hugo
    Maybe this?
     
  13. BloodAndGory

    BloodAndGory Beyond the beyond

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    If you contemplate the truth of existence, there is nothing but love.
     
  14. Vimana

    Vimana Member

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    Except for you know, everything else.
     
  15. Norsemaiden

    Norsemaiden barbarian

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    The trick is to be happy that you once had that wonderful experience and there once was a time when you both were in love with each other. What is in the past is for ever, in a sense, because IT HAPPENED and no one can take that away from you. Everything that occurs has permanence (because the past, present and future all exist simultaneously) and you can choose to look on the positive things that have happened in your life as if they are jewels you have collected and will always be yours. Even if it is a relationship that has ended. You can get rid of "stuck feelings" that are negative and move on.

    I hope that makes some sense!
     
  16. Liisa

    Liisa Member

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    I know that feeling loved would make you stronger in the sense that you would value you own life more. You'd be more inclined to fight to the death as you'd would want to defend your life so you can be around for your loved ones. Love gives you lust for life. Therefore strength.

    It wouldn't make you pump iron tbh, It'd probably make you softer in that sense.

    If someone doesn't feel loved at all then I see how that would make them weaker as they would feel worthless and value their own life less. Which is a BIG weakness.
     
  17. judas69

    judas69 god is in the radio

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    If love can only be perceived or intuited, the lack of love or perceived reinforcement wouldn't leave you any weaker unless you were weak to begin with; relying greatly on the admiration and appreciation of others as a mirror to your own self-worth, which would explain away the majority I'm sure.

    Your mind, the creator of this illusory feeling, has to want to be loved and feel entitled to this love especially from the right person/persons. So, if you feel you have no value to start with or no ability to adequately connect with someone, no amount of love in the world will change how you feel about yourself if you are not accepting of it or it is perceived as being disingenuous or unjustified in some way, if you're an honest person.

    The need for love then, may well be a sign of weakness that is filled artificially (and complacency when in love) unless that object of love should ever be in jeopardy in which case, it is exactly the threat of "no love" that empowers and motivates.

    Much of the aggressive metal out there is certainly not fueled by love.
     
  18. Cythraul

    Cythraul Active Member

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    Wow dude, that's deep.
     
  19. _Wes

    _Wes StrangeBass

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    Interesting.

    Of course - how best to know what a wonderful thing love is - by having lost it. Life is made up of these positives & negatives. . . how much brighter is the light when we've been in darkness.

    There is the opposite of love - but I submit that its not hate - which is also full of passion - but indifference.

    Divorce itself is a many splendored thing. . . at least I still have my kids! ;)
     
  20. Vilewoman

    Vilewoman BitchWurst

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    Wow, what an interesting topic to find..First thank you to Norsemaiden for making the thread.

    I am still learning a great deal about love. Because of an awful past, I will spare you the details. I've been told by two physiotherapist that I suffer from "Child Non-Bonding". I didn't really learn love when I was a child, so now in my 30's I am learning all about this wonderful feeling. I have dealt with my past, shed my tears and even let out a few screams. I've experienced what I thought was love a few times before, but I think it was extreme obsession to be honest.

    Through a very wonderful friend, I have learned how to love unconditionally. Without reservation and receive just as much love in return. Her kids as well have become a major part of my life. My love for them grows everyday. I have never known how strongly my heart could feel, until recently. I have to admit, learning how to love at this age is almost painful. I feel somedays like an infant learning how to walk. My first instinct is to overbear and overprotect them. Or to stand in the corner scared. But age and wisdom has taught me that this is the worse possibly thing to do. I struggle with new understandings everyday.

    I have only found "romantic" love once, in the last few years. When I first started embarking on my journey towards love. It was more like puppy love, with the bad habits of obsession. Because of my obsession and his issues, it didn't work out. Which left me very heart broken. But another wonderful thing emerged from this painful event. Self love. I understood, after we split, that I had never loved me. I had never taken "care" of myself. I didn't eat right, if I ate at all. I can cook for 15 people, but I couldn't cook a meal just for me. That struck me as odd. I didn't exercise. I seemed to care very little about me, how bad my body felt or how little I did for me. Everything I had done was to care for others, not for myself. (This was another habit to come from my past, I would do anything to make others like me.)
    As I learned to love me, I found there was many things I actually liked about myself. And over time, learned to love those things about me. Now that I know how to love myself and what I do love about me..this has given me a whole new insight into loving another and what exactly is involved with loving another.

    Although I will admit I am not exactly actively looking for "romantic" love. I do meet men I am interested in, mainly it's the connection to a person I feel when meeting, spending time with them. (I really don't have a type other than I want someone who loves metal.) But for one reason or another, it doesn't work out. I guess all in due time, right?

    I was married at one point, another horror show, but even then..I married because I thought he was a "smart decision" I didn't marry him for love, I married him because he seemed to be good to be a good man who would honor his vows. I was very wrong. Still, I married him for all the wrong reasons. I do completely understand this now.

    Love, itself is a beautiful thing. I look forward to finding more people to love. I can say, learning how to love, losing it, and still loving others has most definitely made me much much stronger. Stealing from Wes, what a beautiful light love is, in a tunnel of darkness.

    I'm sure there are better quotes about love then the one I am about to use, but it makes me laugh. My sense of humor is one of the things I have found I love most about me.

    "Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love." ~Albert Einstein
     

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