This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Being picky about ATWB

Discussion in 'Theocracy' started by jesseking10, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. jesseking10

    jesseking10 New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hi guys,

    I've been listening to Theocracy for a couple of years now and I absolutely love them: their music-writing skill, their style, and the individuality with each band member. The first album, although not recorded to the highest standard, I thought was brilliant; each song was unique, all having brilliant chorus' and riffs etc.
    The second, in my opinion, was their best, with Matt Smith really excelling with the 22 minute Mirror of Souls single, both with the lyrics and the fantastic structure. Other ones like Laying the Demon to Rest and Martyr were also my favorites, with the sound being exceptional. This is certainly shown in Laying the Demon to Rest, where from 3:11 to 3:54, I think it is just GOLD. This the Theocracy I love :headbang:

    The third, I have mixed feelings and thoughts about however. I know many of you will disagree with a lot of what I will say, but I am just saying what personally feel. Firstly, I think that there is definitely a progression in terms of the producing of the music within the albums: the first being recorded with more old-style equipment, the second being a jump to the digital quality, and then the third using a lot more of this. And in my opinion, I think there is almost too much here. An example I of this would be in say, "The Gift of Music". The intro starts off with a choir, and then a full string orchestra, and then a snare drum, and then an acoustic guitar. And this is all at once. The sound here, is almost too full. Another example, would be the intro to "Altar to the Unknown God" - it's a bit too ambitious. There's a full choir, with SO many harmonies, and it's almost too much for the listener. A third overall example, would be the constant use of choir sound effects throughout the album: is this really needed? Or is it just adding to the vast quantities of layers there already are? Adding on to this, the style of writing (certainly in the studio) sounds a lot more complex, and within the vast majority of the songs, there are so many quiet lead guitar layers, and extra vocal melodies and harmonies. An example would be in The Gift of Music, where if you listen from 1:51 to 2:10, there a verse with singing, and almost a lead guitar solo in the background; is this really necessary?
    What I'm saying here is that I think the balance with the producing and layering has just gone a bit too far - it sometimes loses its raw feeling to the sound (which I feel was amazingly achieved through the second album), and instead sounds like a load of effects and layers piled onto one exhausted listener's ear.

    My second concern with the third album is the change in song-writing technique. In the first and second albums, and even with some in the third album, I think there was a particular way of writing a song, which I felt was especially done with songs like On Eagles Wings, Martyr, Absolution Day, and above all: Mirror of Souls. I have no idea what this method is, I just think the use of chords and harmonies in the third album has changed to it being a lot more major/happy. An example would definitely be The Gift of Music. A very uplifting song as it were, with the melodies being extremely harmonized, in an almost cheesy (sorry!) way? Another would be the overall style of Light of the World: it just doesn't seem right to me.
    The overall point I'm trying to make is that some of the uses of chord progressions and melodies within the third album in my opinion just really don't suit the metal genre. In the second album, I do admit there were some similar cases, but the balanced wasn't tipped, with the style sounding unique instead of peculiar.

    If I could change the way Theocracy wrote their music, I would definitely try to reinforce the success of the "Mirror of Souls" album, (certainly with the Laying the Demon to Rest extract from 3:12 to 3:54) which caught the balance just right between having a special style, whilst still holding on to the basics of most metal.

    I hope this opinion I have of the third album didn't seem like a rant, and I would certainly love to hear some other opinions from people as well :)

    Jesse
     
  2. FleshAndBloodTheocracy

    FleshAndBloodTheocracy Living Apple

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Mon Valley, PA
    Isn't there a thread for this? Most of our opinions are in there already, and it's really where yours belongs.
     
  3. Aish!

    Aish! -Аиш!

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    All very passionate, Jesse. And sorry, but it does sound like a bit of a rant. Clearly you adore Theocracy's early work more than AtWB, and that's fine - the early stuff is great. There's plenty of fans who enjoy everything Theocracy produces, and clearly all the layers are necessary on the new album, otherwise the guys wouldn't have bothered spending so much time crafting it all with such precision.

    You know, you could enter the 30 Pieces of Silver competition and show Theocracy how you think that song should sound!

    Bands do change their sound over time for many different reasons. If they don't, they get criticised for pumping out albums using boring old formulas. Too bad if that's a formula you can't get enough of!

    And yes, F&BT:
    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/theocracy/732886-your-thoughts-about-atwb-5.html
     
  4. Shawn Benson

    Shawn Benson I play dem drums

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    You should listen to the band i am filling in for on the drums, then you would say holy crap! I never knew music could sound this terrible ;)
     
  5. JayArby

    JayArby Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Just a note about the overly-happy chord progressions or whatever: I think you're over generalizing. What about Nailed, for example? Or 30 Pieces of Silver? Light Of The World is definitely more straight up power metal (without the added originality that is usually present in Theocracy songs), but it's still really catchy. I like that Theocracy has a wide variety in their songs--they don't ALL have to sound like Laying the Demon to Rest. That would get boring. I'm glad you can't easily define them as power/prog/thrash/etc. because they have elements from all of those "sub-genre"s.
     
  6. JayArby

    JayArby Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    @Shawn haha, do they know how you feel about it?
     
  7. Aish!

    Aish! -Аиш!

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Australia
    Now I'm curious!
     
  8. Shawn Benson

    Shawn Benson I play dem drums

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    dont laugh, country music cover band with "make you want to go deaf originals". we played for 2 people last show we played, and it was the owner of the club and his wife, and that lasted for about 1 hour 30 mins untill about 15 other people showed up lol
     
  9. Ryan M.

    Ryan M. Theocratic Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,938
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    S.C.
    Hahahaha!
     
  10. Child Of God

    Child Of God Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I see what you are talking about, however I think this is one of the strengths of the album. There are a lot of things you don't hear at the first listen, then when you hear it, you're like "Whaha, I've never noticed that before, sounds so gooooood, this is pure genius".

    We all noticed they took a slightly different approach for this album, and that's great : that would have been lame if they did exactly the same things as before. :)

    *laughing*
     
  11. jesseking10

    jesseking10 New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Yeah thanks very much for you responses - I'll have a look at that other thread. I guess I do just miss Theocracy's old style of sound and music-writing. And yes, I did forget to mention how the track Nailed had the old sound to it. I hope they incorporate more of this back to their future stuff :headbang:
     
  12. jesseking10

    jesseking10 New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Yes, I would certainly agree with that. I know that not all of their songs should sound the same - I just love it when they do have that kind of feel to them.
     
  13. Parched Earth

    Parched Earth Isaiah 53:2

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Did you at least throw in some blast beats?
     
  14. I Rock 4 God

    I Rock 4 God THEOCRACY FTW!!!!!!!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ames, IA
    In my opinion, ATWB is the best so far (By far):D Anyway, the more layers you have, the better the sound. I have listened to music where there are two different instruments playing different parts in different time signatures. about every 7 beats (or something along those lines) It will match up and start again. It is REALLY epic! It is the multiple layer songs like that that really get me worked up (in a good way!) When I am recording, I am always sadly lacking in the Orchestral area, and I need to add more....

    So in other words.....I really disagree...:(

    Oh, and Shawn, I really feel for you. Country music is....well...to put it bluntly....it sucks.
     
  15. M@RS

    M@RS Dept. of Redundancy Dept.

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Thailand
    I would take a wild guess that your speakers/headphones are not the best. I've got some quality sound equipment and the album sounds FANTASTIC.

    If you think there's too much in AtWB, wait'll you hear Blind Guardian.
     
  16. BM

    BM Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I see my momma and my daddy, even crippled uncle Freddy...
     
  17. Shawn Benson

    Shawn Benson I play dem drums

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I see their sowls, they say hello
     
  18. JayArby

    JayArby Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    18
    ^haha, I recently discovered that recording. So funny! Especially the rap part. XD
     
  19. Val Allen Wood

    Val Allen Wood Theocracy Guitarist

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Messages:
    377
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Sorry for having too much music on our music. :)
     
  20. FleshAndBloodTheocracy

    FleshAndBloodTheocracy Living Apple

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Mon Valley, PA

Share This Page