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Capitalism vs Communism

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Norsemaiden, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. Finality

    Finality Daimyo Rorenzo-kun

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    I'm no expert on economic models, but I feel as if capitalism and communism are both flawed in their extreme materialism. I know it's mostly a matter of opinion, but I truly feel as if some material goods are counterproductive in regards to sustainability. What would I suggest instead? I don't really know...
     
  2. Summerian

    Summerian Internetdamaged

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    Freedom and Justice are not mutually exclusive (not always).
    It simple but usefull political maneuvering and manipulation that makes people think so. Social justice was an ugly word thanks to the capitalist fanatics but is now comming back strong.
    We'll see if USA can come back from 25 years of free market fundamentalism and reckless tax-cuts.
    The market economy has a pile of whimsical emotions (wants) and I suspect a slavish devotion to the lowest common denominator. And that could only end well :rolleyes:. The wants of the few are more important then the needs of the many.
    At least planed economy means brain power is involved.

    Can humans function without a society?
    Humans are a social creature. Todays bought intelligentsia acts as if this could be disregarded.
    5000 years ago - was the family more important then the tribe?
    Tell the establishment that the family is the tribe and the tribe is the family... and duck.
     
  3. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    You think the US is a free market. How cute.
     
  4. Summerian

    Summerian Internetdamaged

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    Intelligent (and mature) discussions only.
     
  5. MotherEel

    MotherEel Member

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    Unfortunately this is a forum... that's not likely to happen. hahaha
     
  6. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    yeah, i know
    even here in the freaking "philosopher's" forum
    "inteligent and mature" doesn't really happen
     
  7. happypills

    happypills New Metal Member

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    The communism and capitalism both are far end in each of spectrum. I think both together in moderation will be the way.
     
  8. tero

    tero New Metal Member

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    Communism is an ideology and never represented by any nation. What public seems to forget is that so-called communist countries are/were actually nation/government-driven socialists (not national socialism!). The people do not/did not own the factories, the machinery or anything... they just work/worked for the government, in government-owned industry. Everything is owned by the government, not the people. The people could have some rights to hold or upkeep the system but they didn't run or lead it. Therefore it's meaningless to compare communism and capitalism on a "national level".

    Communism's "golden idea" is to make every individual happy. And if one is sad, then everyone are. And that said it pretty much makes it clear it can't work in reality but as an ideology it seems alright. Capitalism on the other hand gives an individual unlimited possibility to gather capital and mammon. That works fine only if you give everyone the same "starting point". Otherwise some are left completely without and outside and others seem to have a headstart and cutting edge. That breeds jealousy and widens and deepens the chasm between the rich and poor. Minimum wages, social safety nets, free healthcare etc. are the ways trying to balance capitalism and keep it in a short leash. Does it work, I don't know. Maybe.
     
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  9. Random Idiot

    Random Idiot New Metal Member

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    Many people confuse capitalism with mercantilism.

    Here in the states we have a problem with multi-national corporations who enjoy the gift of constitution. What those companies do is hook up with congressmen and use them to pass industry penned legislation. In most cases that industry penned legislation is introduced in a way that would protect these companies from a genuine free market. An example would be that states have the right to protect their citizens from government intrusion however, many of these companies pen legislation that would void the states right to protect its citizens. Agribusiness is a prime example of this. People want to know what is in their food via label but the industry doesn't want to put a label on their product. And so they use their favorite congressman to introduce industry penned legislation that would specifically void the states right to ever make a law that says they have to label thus removing the consumer's freedom of choice. Or their ability to ever know what they are buying in order to actually make an informed decision and participate in a genuine free market.

    This is mercantiism. Unfortunately, people think it's capitalism or the free market when, in fact, it is not.

    And, of course, there are other examples of the phenomenon.
     
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  10. Metal_Cultist

    Metal_Cultist kindly sacrificing

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    well put.

     
  11. Summerian

    Summerian Internetdamaged

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  12. Summerian

    Summerian Internetdamaged

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  13. HadesRagnazrath

    HadesRagnazrath Active Member

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    Both capitalism and communism have serious and unsolvable problems.
    99 percent of the few political systems being used around the world actually work.
    There is a cycle:

    1.Establishment of system
    2.Law gets broken
    3.Stricter laws put into place
    Repeat phase 3
    4.Small scale rebellion
    5.tighter control
    Continue 4 and 5

    Eventually a rebellion will happen, resulting in revolution.
    The cycle will repeat until full anarchy, which can be a good thing.

    Both capitalism and communism will do this

    Capitalism is abused by cooperation a, and communism is abused by the government.
     
  14. Haddock666

    Haddock666 Member

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    I'm socialist myself, but still I think society needs also even little bit liberalism and unionism. Socialist features can also be good choice for capitalist/liberalist society if things are going very bad. But I think it needs to be short in that case, using progressive taxation, state ownership, enough time to produce people equal chance for healthcare and education, help homeless and produce more jobs. And it can work vice versa, getting more capitalist elements for socialist state. Unfortunality if capitalism, socialism or communism did work in one country it doesn't mean it works in another country.
     
    #314 Haddock666, Nov 20, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
  15. CiG

    CiG Primordial Soup of Radioactive Sewage

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    Communism has never worked, socialism often barely works (for example socialist European states like Sweden rely on foreign powers such as America to fund their national defence).
     
  16. Haddock666

    Haddock666 Member

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    Some people describe that communism is system which you create through armed revolution and socialist state instead through democracy. Full communist society is classless and stateless, and people haven't tried that one. Full communist society is almost same as anarchistic society. Marx didn't want to tell people how to do revolution or create communist state, which is good. Because if one way worked in one country it's possible that it doesn't work in another. There are theories which say that first we have to have capitalist system, then socialist and in the end state is going to scatter step by step until society is stateless and classless. Marx also said that in socialism people should be influential in decisions not only the government. Also there are theory where you make fully communist country after the revolution.
     
  17. HadesRagnazrath

    HadesRagnazrath Active Member

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    I saw a very interesting documentary a few months ago regarding privatized vs socialized medical care. It's pretty obvious that socialism is a much better system than capitalism. Capitalism is fine at first, but it is always destined to morph into corporatism, which favors the rich as opposed to the hard working. In a capitalistic system, one can become very rich through performing important work, however, they can pass it on through their families, and the heirs to this fortune don't need to do any work. They can just pay people to do it for them, and they can profit from it more so than their "inferiors" who actually work.

    If the government applies certain restrictions and socialize certain necessities, this can be prevented-the distribution of wealth can be made more even. Once into reaches equilibrium, the country can then prosper. In America, only a small fraction of people can prosper.

    The healthcare documentary really demonstrated the benefits of socialism to me.
     
  18. CiG

    CiG Primordial Soup of Radioactive Sewage

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    It only morphs into corporatism because people who naturally gravitate towards government-controls (socialists) keep voting for more and more government controls over the market, which in a capitalist system means it becomes a government/corporation monopoly.

    Capitalism works best when there is a smaller government and less government entanglement in the market. So actually what was demonstrated to you was that a country with a capitalist system inhabited by a majority of people who want bigger government won't work very well at either socialism nor capitalism.
     
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  19. RadicalThrasher

    RadicalThrasher Active Member

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    Great post! This is the truth, sometimes it hurts.
     
  20. Mister Pink

    Mister Pink New Metal Member

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    I think a mix of capitalism and socialism is the best way. For example university and and healthcare are subsidized by the government here. We also have a decent welfare system. We're not exactly Sweden with the 40% tax or whatever it is they pay but it just means that there's access to rent allowance, job-seekers allowance etc of you lose your job and you can't pay rent, it will be mostly covered and if you go to hospital you wont go broke or have to pay of mountains of bills. Also things like roads get built.

    On top of this socialism that covers your well being and education (it may cost 3,000 - 5,000 Euros per year to go to good university). So that's health and education (aside from the usual things that people all chip in for like transport system etc).

    Then we have a free-market capitalist economy for everything else.
     

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