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Champions or Chumps............SAXON!

Discussion in 'Saxon' started by Paxoman, Mar 18, 2008.

?

Are Saxon.........

  1. Champions of heavy metal.

    16 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. The Spinal Tap of heavy metal.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Paxoman

    Paxoman Member

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    I shit you not! :lol:

    OK, so this might not be the place to have a fair debate, afterall, we are all pretty biased!

    But lets look at it objectively. Are Saxon the heavy metal kings that we think they are? Or are they just the poor mans joke band of the metal world?

    Have they just been unlucky, or did they bring the bad luck on themselves? Saxon took a chance in trying to break America in the 1980's and it back fired on them. Not only did they not make it in the US of A, but it cost them big time in Britain. The new direction and the new songs had people turning away in their thousands. Def Leppard tried exactly the same thing but made it, Saxon failed. To be honest I'm not sure why they failed, those mid '80 albums have got many a fine tune on them that the Americans should have lapped up. Maybe it was all down to poor promotion and management (now where have we heard that before!). Maybe you can see why those albums wern't Britains cup of tea, but surely it should have been America's coffee?

    But let's not forget that Saxon wern't the only band who went 'hair metal' and donned some rather silly outfits, that was the way a large slice of metal was going. Just look at the footage of Judas Priest of the time, and their American hair do's!

    Saxon have regained a lot more respect over the last few years, but there is no doubt that they are not given the respect that they deserve. Afterall, out of all the big hitters of 1980's that are still going - Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Def Leppard, Saxon are probably the only one of those bands that are in better form now, both live and in the studio. With both Motorhead and Def Leppard struggling to come up with half a dozen decent songs between them, let alone putting out solid albums. So why are Saxon playing smaller venues than those two bands?

    Saxon haven't put a foot wrong in the last 10 years, so why arn't they given the respect that they deserve? Especially from the press, but even from metal fans in this country. Maybe those fans don't know what they are missing, what with stations like Planet Rock never playing a Saxon song that has been recorded after 1984. Because I'm sure if more people heard the quality albums Saxon have put out in the last 10 years, then Saxon would be back at the Hammersmith where they belong.
     
  2. WILKS

    WILKS Member

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    Well Pax you have me stumped on this one. From 1984-97 they recorded as many bad tracks as they did good. I know lots of other bands recorded cack in that period but i think they relised a lot quicker.
    Maiden were the ultimate metal band, Priest may have recorded a couple of dodgy albums but had not the backing of a major but they had the court case so constantly in the press (no such thing as bad press). Def Leppard had not the looks the label but like it or not Hysteria is a classic. Saxon on the other hand just kept going. It was'nt until 'Dogs Of War' that they found they found their feet again.
    Just for the record as most of you know anyway, Despite what i say i am still a big fan always have been always will its just i aint blinkered.
    CHAMPS:worship:
     
  3. saxonfan

    saxonfan Member

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    I would say CHAMPS,yes I am biased.If Saxon were overly popular,maybe they wouldn't have lasted the test of time.Something did change over the years,the better they got with some of the lineup changes.I wouldn't trade the current lineup for any of the old ones.
     
  4. Paxoman

    Paxoman Member

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    I totally agree with you mate. Yes the old line up recorded some classic songs, but I'm sure Saxon wouldn't still be here today if they had stuck with that line up. This current line up is supreme Saxon.
     
  5. Fingers

    Fingers Member

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    Agree re. the current line up.

    I love the classics but actually love the newer stuff more nowadays.
     
  6. Paxoman

    Paxoman Member

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    I thought this thread might have sparked a nice little debate, but I guess I should have known better!!!
     
  7. WILKS

    WILKS Member

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    Who is next Pax? I do like these freds of yours.
     
  8. SAXONIZED

    SAXONIZED Made In Yorkshire

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    Pax! What a twist with this thread mate! Nice one, but just seen it!

    On my way out to see Tokyo Dragons now, but believe me we can have a debate on this one. I will respond soon.
     
  9. caflyergirl

    caflyergirl New Metal Member

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    Well, here are my thoughts, as an American who saw alot of those bands during the day and as a fan:

    Def Leppard: made it big because they were pretty boys and more "pop metal" than metal...saw every tour they did from High and Dry to Hysteria and I can tell you majority of the audience was girls (and guys who were there with the girls, haha)..same for Whitesnake.

    Iron Maiden: made it big because of 3 things: Eddie, Rod Smallwood and Bruce Dickenson.

    I really do agree with the thought process that what really held Saxon back was their management...pushed them towards "hair metal", which they were'nt and with the exception of the Maiden tour they always seemed to be paired up with the wrong type bands for them. Although I did see them in LA in 1985 w/ Armoured Saint and that was okay.

    Anyway, just my opinion for what its worth. I am gonna say "Champs"..:)
     
  10. Paxoman

    Paxoman Member

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    I didn't expect anyone to vote chumps to be honest, so the poll part of this thread was a waste of time really! In the circumstances, maybe I should have called this thread 'Rock or Cock'. :lol:
     
  11. SAXONIZED

    SAXONIZED Made In Yorkshire

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    Champions all the way! Up until the release of Power and the Glory imo this is where things started to go wrong for the band. Nothing wrong with the music on the record though the production was geared for another market.

    Accountants Nigel Thomas and his wife managed Saxon at this point, they knew nothing about heavy metal music but seems they were holding the reigns to control everything! They decided it was time to do America! That's right Mr and Mrs Thomas fuck the UK and Europe when the band are on a roll and dilute the band's raw edge and take their identity at the same time.

    Out comes Power And The Glory no UK/ Europe tour the crappiest album cover ever but luckily not a bad album. What happened to the Saxon writing that strong proud image that featured on other albums?

    We didn’t see them again until the Crusader tour, which was in all fairness a huge success for them in Europe, poor album apart from title track but their image sucked and the music press started to take the piss. Look at the image the band had on the back cover of WOS mean n moody, biker jackets and jeans let the music do the talking, no pissing about British heavy metal band. They had Motorheads audience, the biker following as well as there own massive fan base and were well respected but sold out for this glam thing and did not seem to be cool anymore. Crusader tour was big because we loved Saxon when they left and still wanted more!

    Their management couldn’t do America properly. Put them on the Rush tour!! Rush are a great band but not heavy metal then Cheap Trick!! Wrong tours, wrong audience. Record company and management not working together the list goes on! I cannot believe it's just down to management. Saxon could of said "Fuck off we are not doing that" perhaps they wanted to go that route?

    Crusader was the last Saxon album I bought until Unleash the beast and from there they and CHAMPIONS all the way again!!:headbang:
     
  12. SAXONIZED

    SAXONIZED Made In Yorkshire

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    The damage has been done and Saxon will never be as big again. They are clawing back fans old and new with these suberb albums, but some music press still mock them whatever they do. Others just want to remember the classic days.
     
  13. Fingers

    Fingers Member

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    Spot on Saxonized - Very eloquently put an all :worship:
     
  14. Paxoman

    Paxoman Member

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    Well said Saxonized. I can't debate anything you said because I agree with it 100%!

    Yeah you are right, the damage with Saxon has already been done and is unrepairable. But that's ok because I quite like where the band is at now. But sometimes it gets annoying when you see and hear the complete dross that is on channels like Kerrang and Scuzz. Scuzz is more disappointing because they kind of held firm long after Kerrang had sold their soul. But now Scuzz is just as bad, if not worse then Kerrang! Anyway, that is another debate altogether!
     
  15. Fingers

    Fingers Member

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    Couldn't agree more about Scuzz and Kerrap - and as for Rockworld TV :lol:
     
  16. Paxoman

    Paxoman Member

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    Haven't seen Rockworld TV, sounds like I haven't missed anything though! :rolleyes:
     
  17. SAXONIZED

    SAXONIZED Made In Yorkshire

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    Yes! Where the band are right now suits me fine, great material, I enjoy the smaller venues also. It's our gain! They are still going, playing aswell as ever and we get to see it on a more personal level.
     
  18. jacare

    jacare Member

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    I like Saxon's actual line up. I think they're still recording classics, while Priest and Maiden are writing "nice" stuff. Saxon have always been, and will always be GREAT !! Unleash The Beast... oh... everytime I play that I go air guitar, air drums, air mics... what a fuckin' good album !
     

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