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Chugs with Amp Sims

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by Gar23, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Gar23

    Gar23 Member

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    Hey everyone,

    I have a question about getting thick metal chugs with Amp sims such as Le Pou's plug ins or Guitar Rig. Everyone I have talked to has told me that I need to go with tangible cabs and mics but after listening to a few songs online that use free plugins like Le Pou's I still think they sound better than what I have been able to get.

    I've played around with different impulses and settings but so far nothing has really been working. I use an NJ series BC Rich Warlock (2001).

    Here is something I have been working on any feedback would be great!

    http://soundcloud.com/garpocalypse/supremacy-cosmic-cataclysm

    I'm a huge fan of Equilibrium and have been trying to get something close to what they do with the guitars. For this mix I quad tracked the rhythm guitars with Le Pou plugins Lecto, Legion, Hybrit and Lextac and used Le Cab 2 with three impulses loaded per track. I used TSE 808 on Hybrit and Lextac.

    I took a search for any information on amp sims and couldn't find any useful information but if anyone can give some feedback i would appreciate it!

    -gar
     
  2. reg3n

    reg3n Señor Miembro

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    In the link you shared I hear a loud as fuck synth and tiny drums and guitars, I can't hear you making any "chuggs" there, I'd start lowering that synth that's killing everything, work with clean drums + guitars + bass, chugg hard, and that should do it, if you made every possible test with amps and ir's and everything, then you have to play better. Immitate your favourite artist's playing, for a good start. All this might seem obvious, but it wasn't so for me a while ago. If technique is good, I'd rather say it's hard to make it sound BAD. Even with ampsims. Hope that helps.
     
  3. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

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    Lol what guitars? Also, beef up those drums. You should be alright with one sim (LE456, anyone?) and a good impulse (Ryan's S-preshigh series as a reference) with some more chops. This sounds like synthpop to me, I don't know if you were going for an orchestral metal type thing here.
     
  4. Gar23

    Gar23 Member

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    thanks for the help! It's a hybrid of a couple of different styles but I want the folk metal influences to be clear. I really wanted as many guitars as possible but i'll give a single Le456 a try.

    The problems i was having with the volumes was that every time I pushed the guitars I quickly lost the choir and orchestra. I have the choir and orchestra split mono'ed and panned 50/50 with the guitars hard panned 75L/75R and 100L/100R and a little compression at the end of the chain for control.
     
  5. MIAnn

    MIAnn Juniors Member

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    if you insist on sims, TSE808+TSEX50+Kalthallen IR's = win ;) in my humblest of opinions
     
  6. Terminus

    Terminus Member

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    Honestly the whole mix needs work (as does the performance). Up the game, feel the song, work on the playing, revise drum sound (snare sounds pretty bad imho) and then worry about the chugs. Maybe hire a satyr to run around in the studio like a little leprechaun playing that flute while you record to pump you up.
     
  7. Gar23

    Gar23 Member

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    Those 8x12's are much closer to the tone that i have been trying to get. Thanks!

    Those are steven slate drums with some parallel compression on the kick and snare. Chances are good that i'm not using them as well as they could be used. As far as the guitar performance, ive played string instruments my whole life but I just started playing guitar three months ago. Before that I was using Ministry of Rock which I am all too happy to leave behind. :)

    The strings are intentionally legato. I'm going for a contrast in style between the guitars and the choir and orchestra. The flute lead is a cheap Dimension Pro lead with some distortion on it which I may change to EWQLSO to get more natural articulations.

    Thanks for the help these forums were just what i needed to get the ball rolling again!

    -gar
     
  8. LowellWolfe

    LowellWolfe New Metal Member

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    I'd lower the synth, it can still be prominent without covering up everything else. Regarding the guitars, use one ampsim with one cabsim on either side. two tracks one hard left and one hard right. Use the same settings on both sides as well as good EQ. It will sound thicker and more clear and clean. I wouldn't recommend use 4 amp sims and 3 cab sims all together, it ends up sounding like a mess.
     
  9. Gar23

    Gar23 Member

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    Well then I better hold off on posting my update where I upped it to 8 tracks. :) Which is two rhythm guitar parts quad tracked. Maybe i'm getting ambitious but I thought quad tracking was key to getting good metal guitars.

    Though it does sound like a mess. I think i'm going to back off and just use two guitar tracks as suggested.
     
  10. abaga129

    abaga129 The Apprentice

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    Two super tight guitar tracks are always better than 4 decent tracks.
    Besides, guitars already take up enough frequencies as it is.
     
  11. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    +1!! I use this setup almost 100% of the time on my own material.
     
  12. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Member

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    Overloud TH2... it kills!! Realism to the max. Shiiiiiit..
     
  13. rfahey86

    rfahey86 Death Be Not Proud

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    In my "amp simmin" days i used to use TH1 and I thought is was the best one out there. Anymore though, there is no replacement for a well mic'd cab.
     
  14. Gar23

    Gar23 Member

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    This is what I really would like to do despite the huge setup cost. My problem is that I can't record anything loud where i live so I everything has to be in the box.

    In the process of rewriting. Hopefully i'll have an updated version at some point. :) Loving those Kalthallen IR's.
     
  15. blue_fAng

    blue_fAng Member

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    nice chugs come from nice playing it doesn't matter if they are amp sims unless your converters suck or your guitar/pickups are weak you should get decent chugs
     
  16. rfahey86

    rfahey86 Death Be Not Proud

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    It only has to be loud if your using a tube amp (They sound better the louder they get). I use a solid state so I record at the same volume that I would normally play at. Most of the tone comes from mic placement anyhow. There really was no set up cost other than a mic, stand, and an xlr cable. If your gonna reamp than your gonna need a reamp box, which adds to the cost a little.
     
  17. Gar23

    Gar23 Member

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    What I am trying to get is the buffet that comes from air hitting the mic. That pulsing weight that you feel when you hear it. Since there is no air involved with amp sims I am trying to figure out how people have been getting close to the effect.

    After working more with Le Cab2 it seems that by messing with the delay by a few ms I can kind of get closer to what I want. Still working out what combinations work best but so far a center IR up close and an edge IR out by around 1.2-1.5 ms seems to work pretty well. I also stick a fred IR where ever it sounds good. In the demo I posted all of the IR's were loaded onto the cab without any tweaking.

    What a noob huh? :)
     
  18. RedDog

    RedDog Humanoid typhoon

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    Anybody remember that thread with the detailed post on multiband comp to simulate what the speaker does as its moving? I've been looking for that forever.
     
  19. Gar23

    Gar23 Member

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    Holy SH!t WHAT?!

    After taking a look for what you were talking about I hope it's not this thread : http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/backline/676371-free-mesa-os-4x12-v30-impulses-you-6.html

    Because all of the image links are broken. I'm trying to piece together what they are talking about though it sounds like some kind of parallel compression with a multiband to get a fake pump. The guy's demos of the technique are all broken too but damn I wish I found this idea sooner!

    Thanks for bringing it up i'm going to try to recreate it the best I can.
     
  20. SethTheGreat

    SethTheGreat Member

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    Drums are super quiet. Don't bother with the parallel compression yet. Get the drums sounding solid first and foremost straight from SSD without any processing. Build the synths and guitars around the drums. I feel like if you got the drums sounding great (in SSD they already sound great without your intervention) and then got the rest of the instruments to the right levels (I'm talking JUST volume-wise) your mix might sound pretty legit. Also keep in mind that those synths have such a contrasting sound compared to the rest of your instruments, that you should be able to bring their level a ways down and still hear them clearly.

    Everything in a mix is relative to everything else in the mix, and every element works together. If a guitar sounds too quiet, it's because something else is too loud. If a guitar is not punchy or powerful enough, it might be because the drums and guitar are working against eachother instead of with eachother, etc...
     

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