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Controversial opinions on metal

Discussion in 'General Metal Discussion' started by The Ozzman, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    Why does it seem like you always have amnesia? We've discussed my user name before. :loco: Also, maybe you haven't been on this forum long enough to have experienced the various discussions that distinguish between Melodic Death Metal (death metal with pronounced melodic tendencies) and 'Melodeath' (a partially pejorative term to describe 'extreme heavy/power metal' and thus differentiate it from death metal). However, the discussion has been repeated ad nauseum. Here's proof: Search history.

    As I've already said, it's used very informally, and for the purposes of distinguishing two clearly distinct style of metal from one another, in the same manner that the term 'flower metal' is used. Because it's silly to say that With Fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness and Follow the Reaper are part of the same sub-genre. It's nonsensical use the term 'melodic death metal' to refer to a style of music that has nothing in common musically with death metal. 'Gothenburg' doesn't work because the term applies equally to the traditional Swedish death metal vein, so 'melodeath' was at some point appropriated to maintain the familiarity of the term while providing the necessary distinction.

    As far as whether or not it's widespread, 'widespread' in this case is obviously relative. It is used on every metal forum that I've posted on that actually discusses extreme metal, including the Nuclear War Now! forum, Metal Rules, and Metal Archives, so it obviously extends beyond a couple of people on Ultimate Metal. But regardless of that, the post that LuminousAether was referencing should be taken in the context of the lexicon of the forum anyway, which, in this case, already has a (disputed) propensity to use the phrase in the manner I've previously described.

    Now, before I am accused of taking things too seriously, I will rephrase and summarize my original point thusly:

    In discussions wherein it becomes necessary or beneficial to introduce a distinction between the two forms of metal often associated with the term 'melodic death metal', in order to avoid confusion, the style that is derived from heavy/power metal may be referred to as 'melodeath' for convenience.
     
  2. The Butt

    The Butt Unholy gas, flares from my ass

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    <3
     
  3. Saparmurat_Niyazov

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    I've had this debate before, especially when I tried to start a melodeath thread (couldn't find it by searching for some reason). I know, there is the old adage of "WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT GENRES, METAL IS METAL, DON'T BE A FAGGIT BRAH", but when describing a band's style, I think these fine distinctions should be maid. Short of posting a YouTube video or Soundcloud clip so that others can hear the music for themselves, this is the only way. Obviously a band like Soilwork is different enough from a band like Hypocrisy to merit the use of another separate category.
     
  4. Morbus616

    Morbus616 Destroyer Of Worlds

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    I gave up this whole "true metal" thing ages ago. There will always be fans of different kinds of metal out there, and as much as I loathe some forms of it and it's followers, I rarely speak out against any form of music. I leave that to the tweens.

    Yes, it is true, I mostly listen to Br00tAAL bands, simply because I enjoy the sound. It gives me pleasure. Everytime I hear someone say they love a band I hate, I try to put myself in their shoes. They obviously get the same kinda kick out of listening to Slipknow or Korn that I get out of listening to Baphomet and Vital Remains, and I'm happy to leave it at that. I will never listen to bands like Slipknot and Korn, but I sure as fuck won't stop others from it. Why should I?
     
  5. Allfader

    Allfader Kvelding

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    I'm with Dodens here. Melodeath and melodic death metal are being used in a different way, at least in my experience. Melodic death metal refers to plain death metal bands with melodic elements (Hypocrisy, Amon Amarth, Edge of Sanity, B'elakor, even stuff like Dismember, etc) while Melodeath is used for borderline metal bands and/or metal bands with very few death metal influences that use a lot of melody (Archenemy, CoB, Kalmah, Norther, late Black Dahlia Murder, mid/late era In Flames, mid/late era Dark Tranquillity, At the Gates - Slaughter of the Soul clones such as Soilwork, etc).

    In fact, I remember when the term was born and it had a slight derogatory connotation, separating the 'good' from the 'sold out' melodic death metal bands.
     
  6. TheInsane

    TheInsane Member

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    Discussing usernames with unknown people on forums isnt really what I focus on. Since its not all that important I obviously dont care enough to remember such things.

    On the debate, and the distinction between the two terms, I just want to say that its not a distinction I will use anytime soon since its far to uncommon to actually be useful. At least in Stockholm I know of no one who distinguishes between the two - we rather use them interchangably. And bear in mind I play in a band that would be right in the middle of this supposed melodeath vs melodic death metal controversy (if we were to apply the terms the way you do).

    I see it as natural that no genre name can encompass all the bands in what it tries to point down. There is obviously big differences between old In Flames and Unanimated. Still Im quite comfortable in calling both of them melodic death metal just like I can call both "a pleasure to kill" and "the formation of damnation" thrash.
     
  7. matt schrauben

    matt schrauben Curse You All Men!

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    This. I couldn't agree more. I remember when I was in a 'Metal is the only thing worth listening to phase', but then I turned 17.
     
  8. King Richard

    King Richard Against the wind...

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    Dodens is the only guy I know who can call someone a faggot and not make it sound overused or silly.

    I remember those discussions years ago here about melodeath v. melodic death metal. Good times.

    edit: I guess Cyth can too, forgot about him since he seemingly stopped posting.
     
  9. EffigyForgotten

    EffigyForgotten New Metal Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    The bottom line is that it doesn't really matter what terminology in a discussion is used, especially informal terminology like 'melodeath', 'flower metal', half-thrash', etc., as long as the meanings of the terms are mutually agreed upon by all parties for the sake of that particular discussion.
     
  11. Serjeant Grumbles

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    @EffigyForgotten: I was thinking more along these lines:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. EffigyForgotten

    EffigyForgotten New Metal Member

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  13. SomeGuyDude

    SomeGuyDude My name is sorrow.

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    I think that's a big problem in general. Like the fact that "metalcore" and "metallic hardcore" are two very distinct and quite different genres, despite looking on paper to be like the melo/melodic situation where the former is simply a combination of the latter.

    I'm 100% in the corner of subgenre classification because I like being able to describe bands, plus it makes recommendations far easier, but the terminology really gets muddled sometimes.
     
  14. LuminousAether

    LuminousAether My name is Distance

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    Why do so many of you d-bags think that every particular sound has to have its own genre tag? That is a ridiculously lame way to view things. It's EASY to group Hypocrisy and Soilwork into the same subgenre. Hell, Liturgy and Dimmu Borgir are both considered black metal and what do THOSE bands have in common, eh? Fucking laughable. Genre nazism is pathetic. Melodeath is a truncation of melodic death, they are the same exact thing.
     
  15. Allfader

    Allfader Kvelding

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    Another strange term now is metalcore. Metalcore was in the 80's what we call today crossover and related stuff like DRI, Corrosion of Conformity or Exhorder. Now 'metalcore' is used for the less-metal groove oriented music like Lamb of God, KSE and such, usually heavily inspired on Pantera (Vulgar onwards) and in some cases taking elements from melodeath.
     
  16. EffigyForgotten

    EffigyForgotten New Metal Member

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    Lamb of god is not metalcore at all. Metalcore is fag metal for teenagers that want to be hardcore.
     
  17. Balls McHoolihan

    Balls McHoolihan You mean coitus?

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    LoG is more groove metal.
     
  18. EffigyForgotten

    EffigyForgotten New Metal Member

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    LoG IS groove metal.
     
  19. The Butt

    The Butt Unholy gas, flares from my ass

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    Melodeath is not analogous with melodic death metal, the two are different.
     
  20. SomeGuyDude

    SomeGuyDude My name is sorrow.

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    Why? Because metal has such wide and varied sounds that if you go "I like metal, recommend me some bands" then it makes it easy to find new bands.

    Someone asked me for recommendations once. I asked what bands he liked. He mentioned some band I'd never heard of, so I looked them up and they were like a sludge/stoner group, and now that I know they're sludge/stoner I could make recommendations.

    Genre grouping helps with exploration of sound. And your Liturgy/Dimmu example is stupid because Liturgy is a weak example of post/black and Dimmu is more symphonic-black. Different.
     

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