This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Death Penalty

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Janga666, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. Janga666

    Janga666 Infamous Butcher

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I would like to hear some thoughts on Capital Punishment. Personally I agree with reinstating the death penalty (although I know it will never happen).

    I think that if someone is convicted of a crime such as serial murders and are proven guilty without a doubt, that person should be put to death. Why keep that person alive leeching resources from society?

    I know some people argue that the death penalty is not fair to human rights, but I think that there are certain acts a person can do that removes all human rights.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. 10293847

    10293847 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The question to ask is: Is there any way to prevent someone from killing another person? I would say no. Now, the next question would be: Given that someone has killed another, who has suffered the most here, (aside from the victim) and what can we do to alleviate te pain?

    Personally, I don't like the idea of the government killing someone in order to amend a kiling. Although, I can surely understand the huge pain of family members who have had someone killed.

    I think family members should be the final judge on whether this person, (If convicted guilty) gets the death penalty or not. Since someone from their family has been taken away from them, the family of the victim should have the right to control this person's fate. I know that some people will say that not killing this person is doing him/her a favor. But if you keep this person in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives, death may be a more humane decision.

    It's about as even a solution as I can think of.

    As a side note: The issue regarding the money taken to sustain these people who have killed, that is a tough question to answer. I don't like the idea of maintaining these people in prison any more than others do. I just know that we have to follow certain humane rules and that unfortunately requires us to foot the bill.
     
  3. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,411
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    63
    That's an easy question to answer, the murderer. A lot of cases of serial murderers one can find that the person doing the killing has problems of his own. The way I see it, if you were too weak to deal with your own issues or seek help for yourself and you killed someone, you deserve the same fate. A killer of this magnitute that has suffered a lot, ends up enjoying the suffering he inflicts on others (he does not do it for good ol' retribution), thus ending up being a bad seed himself. A piece of shit like this does not deserve being free and having the spare time to continue killing people, IMHO.

    That proposes a problem. When you got a serial killer that has killed at least 10 people in his lifetime, what should we do? put it to a vote? I myself can't see that happening, these are not the elections. Like Janga said, there are certain acts that strip away the humanity of a person. I don't see why should you treat a person like this as a human, when his contribution to society has been so destructive.
     
  4. that one guy

    that one guy You know, that one guy.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Murrieta, California
    I personally agree with reinstating the death penalty. However, this raises the question: Why did we put in the death penalty in the first place? It was (and still is) generally reguarded as the end of the line, the most heinous form of punishment. But how much worse would it be to have to live out the rest of your life in a prison, seperated from outside society, never to return again, never to do anything special or meaningful again. Sitting on death row must not be the funnest thing in the world either. The days, minutes, and seconds leading up to your artificial demise must be tough as well. Knowing that your life as you and everybody knows it is about to end, and you cant do anything about it. As with most issues, there are pros and cons to both sides, just a matter of weighing the possible benefits against the inevitable losses.
     
  5. Janga666

    Janga666 Infamous Butcher

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    We have to follow certain humane rules, but should there be humane rules that protect individuals who commit certain acts? I just think that there are certain acts that warrant death. What is the point in keeping a psychopathic serial killer like, for example, Jeffrey Dahmer alive in a prison cell when there is no chance of him ever being released into society ever again? What right does someone who has done acts like that have to be alive?

    I think at this point it goes beyond deterring future crime.
     
  6. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,219
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0

    the "lethal injection" (in USA) is actually 3 seperate injections, the 1st one is a parylitic specifically designed to parylize the lungs and vocal chords so that you can't scream when the other 2 cause excrutiating pain, to me this constitutes being "cruel and unusual" punishment under the bill of rights
    which raises the question
    why can't the lethal injection be done in the same gentle way that american animals are "euthanized" PETA controlls the way that is done so the animals don't experience any pain when they are killed
    animals get treated better than people? what the fuck?
    also there are a few states in USA that still use the electric chair and i've been told that in some places the gas chamber has been replaced with the lethal injections because of whitnesess saying that the person in the gas chamber is visibly in pain from the effects of the poison gas
    why can't executions be done humanely?
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I've always favored it and never understood what peoples problems were with it. Its just our "new" wanker society shining through because for thousands of years man had no tolerance for the freaks of nature and obsurd behavior, always willing to dish out what was recieved. Yet today we live in a society that claims 0 tolerance... go figure ?

    I also dont draw emphisis on the extreme of "serial killers", they are few in comparision to the volumn of cold blooded murders. Anybody that kills with intent or premeditated thought should die, so should traitors to the interests of our country. It should be immeadiate and by large fireing squads. This eleviates placing the burdon on ONE person, a single executioner. Our national guard or other military branches should handle this, that is what they are trained for. No sitting on "death row" for years sucking up... what... $80,000 a year for their keep at tax payers expence, money our governments obviously do not have to spare.

    As for other "Human rights", prisoners should have to work, 40 hours a week for the community, doing work that needs to be done for the infrastructure or what ever calls for attention. They should have to earn their keep, just like the rest of working Americans, they should have to be productive parts of society, not just a bunch of stools sitting around in the yard, working their criminal craft, or in the weight room building their worthless bodies, watching TV, playing ping pong or whatever the hell they do all day. That is just life, the life we all have to deal with, be useful or expire, its that simple, its called LIFE.
     
  8. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    6,219
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i have no problem with the death penelty
    it should just be done more humanely
     
  9. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,411
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The question is, why should you treat like a human a being who does not behave himself like a human-being?
     
  10. SentinelSlain

    SentinelSlain Suck my joined date.

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    9,999
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    63
    To be quite honest if it was up to me some of the politicians who made decisions that allowed for some known terrorists to live and preach hate in the UK previous to the terror attacks should be given the original punishment (in England) for treason.
     
  11. Frost Giant

    Frost Giant The Winter's Wrath

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania USA
    I support the death penalty, but only when there's no doubt as to the guilt of the convicted. Some cases just cry out for it, like John Couey, who raped 8 year old Jessica Lunsford and buried her alive to hide his crime. Yet, there are cases where innocents have been sent to death row and not all of them have been cleared in time. Desire for vengeance and justice is not always a bad thing but you have to make sure you're exacting it on the right person.
     
  12. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    For me this is true to the point. A traitor is a traitor and one who lacks the balls to throw up the red flag and snuff the kindling flame where it smolders is nothing but a wank butted traitor. Change as we may have the vast majority still follow the tracks of their leaders... soft leaders... soft peoples
     
  13. BloodAndGory

    BloodAndGory Beyond the beyond

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Third rock from Sun
    Respect for the law is what keeps societies with a large human population going.
    When humans take law into their own hands, society suffers.
    I know for a fact that when you hurt me, I hurt you back.
    And you hurt one of my own, I'm gonna get you.

    If the place I live punishes those that have wronged me and gone against the law, I don't take the law into my own hands.
    If they don't I will take care of it myself.
    The regions of the world where people don't get the law they want and take the law into their own hands are very backwards...

    Look at Sicily or Checnya, or the Arabic countries where people take the law into their own hands.

    They don't have much of a civilization going. Human life is valuable in a post-industrial society.
    Not so much in agricultural and pre-industrial countries.

    I personally don't care if the death penalty is there or not because I only believe in justice for me. I don't trust others to protect me.

    A lot depends on the country.
    In Sweden, for example, like most of Europe, they don't support the death penalty.
    But if their crime levels rise, they surely will.

    Everything is relative.
    There is no center, everything is fallen apart.
     
  14. Repenting_Scar

    Repenting_Scar New Metal Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I for one don't support death penalty for the following reasons:
    - One can never ever be sure if the judgement is right. There are sometimes people who confess to some crimes for other persons or for which sake ever although they are innocent. There are often wrong judgements. It would be fatal for so many people if an innocent people would be executed: For the judges, for the executed, his family, his friends and for the victims and their relatives it wouldn't have any use and would give them a bad conscience.
    - There would be the question: For which crimes you get executed, for which not. What is the worst of all crimes and who has to decide about it. I myself wouldn't like to be in the position to have to decide about this. Is it worse if someone maltreated ten people, fucked them with violence and harmed them psychologically for the rest of their lives or if someone poisoned another, who might in the end really have been an asshole and was lets say also a kind of victim of a personal death penalty self-administered justice. What should you do if the person who should get executed regrets. Regret is something positive and human, so: Kill in spite of that or give him another chance? But then everybody could be pretending for the other chance. (Plus: If some victims really want vengeance and want the accused one to suffer then it would be the most cruel to leave him alive with the regret and the guilt inside)
    Again the burden to decide over this is too heavy for a human person to bear imo. I'd feel pity for all judges who made wrong decisions and caused the death of innocent people or people who might have changed.
    - Change is the next point. It sounds like shit I know but I think one should give people another chance. Of course there are people pretending they have changed, get out of prison, kill again...maybe one needs to pay more attention of this and maybe one really shouldn't trust the ex-criminals too early but to rape someone of every way to change also is not fair. maybe some take long til they understand what they've done, maybe some ever won't but maybe others think about it and get worthy and modest persons. Anyway if someone commits a crime because he's mad maybe he can get cured. I think at least one should try for one last time.
    - The next point is that the executed also have families. They will feel like the families of the victims or maybe in some cases where many questions are left or something even worse, although they are innocent. If the executed was still alive they could at least decide whether they still want to see him or not, whether to forgive or not, whether to ask why or not, whether to try to help to change (strange sentence-construction but well...^^" ). But one takes away all the possibilities for them as well if one kills the criminal.
    - Well then...the money-aspect of keeping murderers etc in prisons being payed by our society. Of course that can't be justice but I've already read on kind of solution in previous posts: This was: Let them work for the society, as for me the most shitty jobs you can imagine. They shouldn't live like in a hotel after there crime. So this would be at least something usefull. Then not to make the society pay one could pawn personal prosperty of the criminal to pay for the food and take the money he has left. This gets more complicated if he has a family of course but one could find some arrangements for that I think.
    Well so in the end, although I know there'd be a few pro arguments for death penalty too (like you-receive-what-you-give or for-the-victim's-relatives sake ...), I come to the conclusion that I'm against. It's something different to me if the criminals kill themselves and make themselves a kind of death penalty. This is something I think is right and fair in a way. No one is to blame for their death then, no one obviously has to think: maybe he was innocent, maybe I made some mistakes. Anyway there could be too many mistakes done if introducing executions etc again imo.

    ...uff, this was long and I don't think very well structured. I hope one gets the point out of it though :rolleyes:
     
  15. Vegard Pompey

    Vegard Pompey ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,284
    Likes Received:
    2,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Duwang
    I'm against the death penalty for the sole reason that I wouldn't want to see any government with the power to decide who lives and who dies.
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I dont want part of a government that spends billions a year keeping these jerk offs alive.

    One who thinks people change either hasnt been paying attention or has not been on the face of the earth long
     
  17. Chanakya

    Chanakya Orphaned Brother

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Sado-Masochistic morons would probably enjoy torture and solitary confinement, as they are left in their own deranged world. It would of course not be economically viable from any angle to keep such a person alive. I know that I sound like one of them when I say that, but where the same money could be used in improving healthcare or infrastructural facilities, why on Earth would anyone want the bane of the society to exist at the cost of us? However, IMO, those who inflict pain unto others in hate related issues, such as terrorists caught alive during their act must undergo lots of pain and death is an easy way out for these people. And by the death of one of their comrades, others are given just the reason to continue their activities. I do agree that a lot of people live under harsh conditions, vastly different from that under which we live in, but that still doesn't give them the right to take away the life of someone innocent, totally unrelated and not even the cause of their misery.

    I don't understand why serial killers are granted lunacy protection while someone who is just doing an age old profession of narcotic trading [which was quite naturally atleast in the part of the world where I live in, but the ideals/interests of certain people in the west have all of the sudden been imposed on the whole world] is hanged. Its innocent people being brutally killed v/s burning a fucking leaf.
    I think the authorities must get their priorities straight. I hope they do give a shit about the people who get them into office.
     
  18. Liisa

    Liisa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    GB
    I agree with the Death Penalty. A warm, secure feeling comes from the thought: 'If someone where to stab me to death tonight, they would get their life taken for doing it'. With that thought, you would no longer feel as threatened going jogging at night or finding yourself at a dodgy house party. Also the crime rate would decrease rapidly with the threat of death for all serious offenders. ALSO it would solve the problem so serious in Britain of overcrowding prisons. Criminals declared 20 years imprisonment getting out with 4 or so... it's sick dude.
     
  19. razoredge

    razoredge Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Fear is the only deterrent, if it werent for the loss of expensive infrastructure jails would be a good place to perform military target practice on, that would get a few minds headed in the correct direction at a young age. End of story... if your a deviant asshole you gonna die.
     
  20. gatedropper

    gatedropper Prince of Peace

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Messages:
    2,684
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    “The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”

    Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.
    The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.
    The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.
    The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year. "

    So it is much cheaper NOT to kill them.
     

Share This Page