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Dimmu Borgir, black metal & "Tr00-Kvlt" BM fans

Discussion in 'General Metal Discussion' started by VampyrRose, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. VampyrRose

    VampyrRose Member

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    There's nothing more idiotic and shameful than those “uber-tr00-kvlt” die hard black metal fans (for lack of a better name that describes them so fittingly). Yes, I consider myself to be a avid fan of black metal and very knowledgeable on the subject but I certainly don’t pride myself in stupidity by constantly telling people what is and is not black metal...that is with the following exception in which I am supporting my argument that they are subject to their own hypocritical views and contradictory criticisms.

    Its well know that Dimmu Borgir started off as a black metal band and progressively, they adapted more of an “extreme metal” sound. However, that is not to say they aren't black metal. Like almost all of the "elite" BM bands, they have undergone a change in sound, one that would not qualify as true black metal. Emperor did almost the same thing. "Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk" did have good sound production and featured more of an "extreme metal" sound that the band would later embrace as apposed to a straight black metal sound. Yes they did make a music video for "The Loss and Curse of Reverence.” - However, because of Dimmu's increasing popularity, commercial appeal and evolving sound, tr00-kvlt-only BM fans have shunned Dimmu Borgir and chosen to disregard them as a black metal band.Thus, why should Emperor still be considered black metal if only their debut album offers a true sound, and if their latter style was not as true much like that of Dimmu Borgir?

    Now I like Immortal and am not here to piss on them in any way - I am simply making a point. Immortal are considered to be true black metal by many. Why? They have never ever worn "corpse paint", rather it has always been "Demon War Paint" according to Abbath. Their image has often encompassed more of a wrestler approach than a than that of a traditional black metal band. Their lyrical themes are not the same ones commonly found amongst other true black metal bands. For example, they do not write about Pagan beliefs, Anti-Christian or even nature...instead they write about their own winter-fantasy-world, certainly not nature. The latter years of Immortal's existence gave way to a more "thrashier" sound. You could argue that they, like many elite BM bands changed direction and were once true black metal....However, Fenriz has said in interviews that drums are not an integral part of true black metal, instead they are just "supposed to be there." Fenriz. This is not the case with Immortal's "Battles in the North" album, not to mention they made two music videos for that album - yes, music videos. Therefore, one would be lead to believe that Immortal is not true black metal according to the accepted "rules" of black metal 101. Yet they are one of the pioneers of black metal and remain one of the few names accepted in the tr00 black metal ranks. I don’t dispute this but you can see what I am getting at.

    Truth be told, there are no rules to black metal despite popular belief of ignorant diehard BM fans. Bands that follow these "unwritten" guidelines and claim to be "tr00" are simply posers and don't seem to realize the underlying message of "be yourself"found commonly amongst the “black metal elite“. Its one thing to criticize bands like Darkthrone for not playing into their roots (sorry if they've decided to be themselves rather than cater to a bunch of idiotic fans) but coming from young know-it-all fans? Where were those fans 15 years ago? And most importantly, what gives them the right to tell the few (who only experienced the birth of black metal, defined the genre and took it to great new lengths) what is and is not black metal? Fuck that. True black metal died 10 years ago. Black Metal has changed, evolved and been re-written over the past decade. Get over it.

    For these reasons it is most appropriate to eliminate such lame usage of the terms “true/tr00” & “kvlt” black metal. Why not just accept the fact that there are different waves of black metal. The wave that gave black metal is foundation, the second wave that defined the genre, and the new wave that is of today.

    This is simply my opinion, but feel free to agree or disagree.
     
  2. Thraxz

    Thraxz Melody be Thy Name

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    I suppose Cradle of Filth is black metal now.
     
  3. VampyrRose

    VampyrRose Member

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    No. I am not saying this out of any disrespect for them, they are one my favourite bands. But they do not play black metal and CoF have said this numerous times.
     
  4. Thraxz

    Thraxz Melody be Thy Name

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    Hey, if you can explain everything away as new waves so can I. They are the new wave. Get used to it.

    EDIT: And, no, I don't like them.
     
  5. VampyrRose

    VampyrRose Member

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    They are not black metal. Black Metal has a certain style to it much like death metal has, in its own respect. Cradle of Filth has defined their own sound (whether you like their sound or not) and are in their own category. There's no point in trying to label them in any genre. Though, they obviously have a "gothic" influence in regards to their sound.
     
  6. Perdition's Light

    Perdition's Light dinosaur jr.

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    The only people who say tr00 and kvlt are lameasses that think they're cool because they know of the existence of a subgenre of metal in which "people act all medieval in forests and shit," and therefore everyone should find very amusing , thereby publicizing the fact that they know of said subgenre as well and gain 10 indie cool points.
     
  7. VampyrRose

    VampyrRose Member

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    Very true.
    *(note the obvious pun that could be associated with my comment)
     
  8. Teh Grimace

    Teh Grimace New Metal Member

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    "Anthems" has good production?
     
  9. VampyrRose

    VampyrRose Member

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    Yes, it does for a black metal album released in 1997. Compare it to that of your typical black metal release...ie. Darkthrone.
     
  10. Birkenau

    Birkenau New Metal Member

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    Agreed, most of the kvlt and tr00 shit comes from nu-metal and melodeath/metalcore fans.
     
  11. Perdition's Light

    Perdition's Light dinosaur jr.

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    let's not talk about production and black metal in the same thread. i thought this was an established rule of metal cybercommunispeak.
     
  12. VampyrRose

    VampyrRose Member

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    oh?
     
  13. Perdition's Light

    Perdition's Light dinosaur jr.

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    vampyr - that was mostly in jest...but history will repeat itself in this thread as soon as "BM production" becomes the main topic. I have no qualms with that, I'm merely a crazed spectator who yells out random observations.
     
  14. byrne

    byrne Certavi et vici

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    the only people who say "tr00" or "kvlt" are the people taking the piss out of idiots like the guy who started this thread. i can't recall 1 thread in 3 years on this board using either of those terms in any seriousness.

    your argument makes no sense, and you seem to have little to no knowledge of black metal (not that I necessarily do, but I know enough to know your argument sucks).
     
  15. Teh Grimace

    Teh Grimace New Metal Member

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    re: byrne... what happened to misfit?
     
  16. byrne

    byrne Certavi et vici

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    never really liked it. seemed like a good idea when i registered though.

    *note the misfits still rule*
     
  17. Teh Grimace

    Teh Grimace New Metal Member

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    WARNING YOU...
    I'LL PUT A KNIFE RIGHT IN YOU!
    WARNING YOU-OO...
    I'LL PUT A KNIFE RIGHT IN YOU-OOH-OHH!


    < fiend
     
  18. Perdition's Light

    Perdition's Light dinosaur jr.

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    YOU DONT GO IN THE BAAAAAAAAATHROOM
    WITH ME
     
  19. byrne

    byrne Certavi et vici

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    TOO MUCH HORROR BUSINESS DRIVIN' LATE AT NIGHT!
    PSYCHO '78! I'M TALKIN' BOUT 12 O'CLOCK
    DON'T BE LATE!
     
  20. Fredy_Brown

    Fredy_Brown The Line Begins To blur.

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    Original black metal has died and the rest lives in surviving bands like darkthore (which I respect).
    One part of black metal scene has evolved and anothed stucked in prehistoric music.
    There are too many new "tr00" black metal sounded bads, young guys that decided to make an own band...and playing the old-school black metal is easy as fuck, everyone can do that. Purpose of black metal wasn&#180;t 100000 black metal bands like we can see it in nowadays. They have ruined classical black metal concept and haven&#180;t bring almost nothing new.
    Moder black metal (bands like Dark Funeral etc) is ok but it doesn&#180;t much either.

    On the other side we can see bands and musicians that started in black metal and evolved a genre. Ulver, Dimmu Borgir, Emperor, Bathory etc etc well known musicians that built roots of genre and entrenched to another.

    Owning to black metal we have great musical genres and we will never forget of roots, but the best black metal albums are already done. New, young musicians should concentrate to newer styles, not over-discovering classical black metal genre.

    Tr00 black metalers don&#180;t critique just genres and fans, they despise evolution, which is retarded.
     

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