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Dynamics on guitar DI's...

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by deffpony, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. deffpony

    deffpony Member

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    Ok so in the tone matching thread that Clark Kent started someone posted a tone that was awesome. Now the tone itself wasnt what is awesome IMO but the dynamics of the tone. The forum member was using POD Farm. Here is the tone...

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22950750/Tone test 2.mp3

    After hearing this I contacted the member and asked what he did to get it. He sent me the pod patch and told me he used logic pros match eq for the curve.

    I tried recreating the tone with ozone and my results, while close, were severly lacking in dynamics...

    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22950750/My Idols tone.mp3

    If you compare the two you will hear how his playing pumps and pushes as if it were a real amp. After realizing I was failing at getting this sound I asked for him to send me a DI so I could hear the difference between our two.

    It was worlds apart. Heres his followed by mine

    HIS
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22950750/Idols DI.mp3

    MINE
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22950750/My Idols di.mp3

    Im SLAMMING my strings in this recording but thats what I get. The biggest differences are a higher range of frequency on his, and much more note velocity. But no matter how hard I slam my strings it sounds the same.

    Then come to find he is using the EXACT same gear as me. ESP MH-1000 EMG 81 through a pod. So I have been trying to figure out why my di's are so lackluster compared to his.

    Before you say its my playing, I have tried every which way of playing style and I cant recreate the dynamics in his di's.

    Here is a waveform comparison:

    [​IMG]

    You can see where he peaks out and mine falls short despite how hard Im slamming the strings.

    Heres the DI waveforms:

    [​IMG]

    Now in my opinion it almost sounds like his tracks have an expander on it. I have tried using a gate/expander to recreate this but no luck. DOES ANYONE HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.
     
  2. Jordon

    Jordon Member

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    It really does sound like technique to me. Plus dead-sounding strings. It could even be the DI box, brand/gauge of strings, pick size/material. Your DI sounds like the playing itself was not as percussive as the other dude. That other dudes DI is kind of how mine look and sound as well, and for me it comes down to my playing style.
     
  3. deffpony

    deffpony Member

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    I know and that is what is so frustrating.

    I am playing as hard as I possibly can, so much to the point that I cant play longer than 15 seconds because my arms wants to fall off.

    We are using the same strings/gauge and my strings are brand new. I have tried moving the pickup height but no luck. We are also using the same DI,

    It sounds like hes playing the slap bass and im playing a violin.
    As much as I know it sounds like its technique and playing style I dont see how this can be. I ha
     
  4. XxSicRokerxX

    XxSicRokerxX Gabriel R.

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    Match tone your DI to his DI :D hahaha jk maybe try using a transient designer
     
  5. deffpony

    deffpony Member

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    LOL whats funny is I actually did match tone my di to his di. thats how i became positive it was the dynamics and not the tonal shape of the di.

    How could a transient designer help??? I have the SPL transient designer
     
  6. XxSicRokerxX

    XxSicRokerxX Gabriel R.

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    There was some dude on the forum earlier who said he used some transient designer (i forget which one) on his DIs to give it more attack, he said it was his little secret or something. Another thing, going back on topic, did you ask that guy if he uses a sock or towel to mute his strings from ringing out? It might be that, that is giving that slappy poppy sound, after a note plays it mutes and gives it that pop. Try that.
     
  7. deffpony

    deffpony Member

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    Hmm I will have to look into that. I just tried it out and it increased the attack but for my low notes only.
     
  8. Adrian Warren

    Adrian Warren Member

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    If you're using the same gear you might want to try experimenting with the pickup height.
     
  9. deffpony

    deffpony Member

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    Yea I adjusted the pickup height do pretty much every area
     
  10. 006

    006 Member

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    With EMGs you need to set them as close as possible without it affecting your playing for best results, just fyi.

    What DI are you using and what DI is he using? Same pick and gauge?
     
  11. deffpony

    deffpony Member

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    We are both using POD xt's. Same gauge picks.

    I tried moving the pickup as close as possible to the string but it honestly made it worse. Sounded like there was a hard limiter on the guitar
     
  12. reg3n

    reg3n Señor Miembro

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    The only thing left, is to get him, playing your guitar :D
    Scratching the strings sounds 10x fuller than slamming them with a hard pick.
     
  13. deffpony

    deffpony Member

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    Ugh, its bullshit. His tone has so much pump to it. I cant even find a way to recreate in with plugins.
     
  14. hurdy

    hurdy Sup

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    When you say your playing it hard, are you playing it hard all the time?
    Maybe try soften up a lil and only play hard on the parts that need to pump

    EDIT: after listening to the first 2 mp3s. Its definitely a technique thing
     
  15. 006

    006 Member

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    Actually, yeah I agree, just listened to the DI tracks, he is definitely picking much harder than you are.
     
  16. XxSicRokerxX

    XxSicRokerxX Gabriel R.

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    I just compared his DIs to a few other sneapsters w EMGs and none of them have a spike at 5.4khz and 10khz like this guy does, he must be doing something completely different. Its probably the strings close to where his palm are that are hitting the fretboard.
     
  17. Ascendant

    Ascendant Member

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    Listening to the DIs it does indeed sound like he plays more percussively, but also closer to the bridge. The further away you pick from the bridge the more muddy your tone will become.
     
  18. ProjectHamsterdam

    ProjectHamsterdam God of Emptiness

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    I can't listen as I'm at work right now, but did you try a new battery for your EMGs?

    The headroom on them lessens the more your battery is drained, so the less voltage you have, the more they clip internally hence less dynamics.

    Yeah, obvious remark is obvious, but seems like you checked everything else.
     
  19. Mago

    Mago Austrian Blech Machine

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    Most things have allready been said, I'd just like to add:

    Maybe even if you'd get him to play through your chain, it's not guaranteed it will sound the same, cause same guitars can vary a lot in sound too.

    When I heared the DIs I thought it's different guitars. Looking at the waveform though I'd also check the battery, cause this looks a bit like it looked when mine went dry once. I also was wondering why it sounded like shit.

    btw: you can try to use an ampsim as a booster instead of a TS in order to get somewhat of that effect. I sometimes use SoloC for that, clean channel.
    Just an instance of the sim instead of the TS sim. Can work pretty nice
     
  20. hsinn3r

    hsinn3r Member

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    I can't think of something else, I can see it being a matter of pick and/or new battery on the EMG. Maybe he has the 18volt mod?
     

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