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Evolution.

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by Patrick R., Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

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    is it spring in the US? ...such a bounty of herring.

    uh oh, I can't defend my claim against evolution, better get them to talk about sabertooths, and the relevance of public interest in faith claims.
     
  2. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I made no claim against evolution... unless you care to point out ?

    Nor did I have any desire to talk about sabretooths, but nice try... considering how easily you are reeled into distractions
     
  3. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

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    massive lolz
     
  4. Thoth-Amon

    Thoth-Amon Hypochondriac

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    what?:lol:
     
  5. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    what... what ?
     
  6. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    Why are you still bringing this up even after we've defeated it? Earlier humans may have legitimately held this perspective, but thanks to advances in our understanding of our own evolutionary development, it's no longer a valid consideration.
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    which part ? creation ? or that some feel human doesnt stick out in evolution ? either way I know of people that believe both evolution and creation and I'll let them. As for myself believing that "we stick out like a sore thumb" doesnt mean I dont think we have evolved, nor that I didnt understand explainations you and others have given, it all makes sense to me, but I can still question what appears as there only having been one lucky evolutionary card so to speak.

    I really would have rather heard about what some science circles predict for future evolvement and if or when the sun was going to become too hot for many forms of life. My understanding is that that is what stars do ? Or is that wrong ?
     
  8. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    As far as the one lucky evolutionary card, this is not the case. We're one of several species of the genus homo, many of which have even lived simultaneously. However, we're the newest of the genus (as far as we can tell) and the only one that didn't go extinct. Genetic tests indicate that only a few thousands of years ago there was a drastic genetic bottlenecking effect, which resulted from when our species almost went extinct, just like all the others in our genus.

    However, this isn't even unusual in evolution as there are several examples of species that have no living relatives and even several who are so distinct that we can't even figure out from which evolutionary branch they originated. Evaluating the situation objectively, there are actually several species that stand out against the crowd much more than we do, you just don't recognize it, because you have a very anthropocentric perspective, as another member mentioned a few pages ago.

    With regard to the sun, the lives of stars follow a predictable path and ours is on the younger side of middle age. Additionally, we're in transition between the last ice age and a warm period which will probably last for at least the next few thousand years. The sun will continue to produce more or less heat at different points of its life, but it won't actually die for a few billion more years. Even that won't happen until after it expands into its red giant phaze, at which point it will become so massive that it engulfs all four inner, terrestrial planets in our solar system.
     
  9. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I did know there was others, but still we must have been the "lucky card". Why did they rule out cross breeding of the various species of homo ? Just kinda of wondering if thats not how we came to further evolve. Stupid, I know(before someone else feels the need to tell me) but I really question it.

    I'd be interesting in knowing what these other new or untraceable species are, and other stand outs ?
     
  10. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    It's been predicted that Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis did try to interbreed, but probably were unable to produce verile offspring. Other evolutionary mechanisms which could have prevented other species from crossbreeding would be the violent territorial nature of man that we also observe in chimps, so we can deduce that all other related species probably shared similar characteristics. Geography of course is another factor that ancient man would have had to have contended with.

    With regard to other stand out species, I've read about several with questionable origin, but I'll have to get back to you with examples later. Unfortunately, I still have one more rather large paper to finish and I'm kind of short on time :(
     
  11. Hallucinations

    Hallucinations Dracula has a moon base..

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    Isn't a mule the product of a horse and a donkey mating? Causing the mule to be infertile? I would check but I'm meant to be learning a French presentation.
     
  12. Hallucinations

    Hallucinations Dracula has a moon base..

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    Okay I checked, interwebz > french:

    I find it fascinating that the gametes actually work together, nevermind the fact that they produced a healthy, living being without any massive physical deformities! :)zombie:)

    How could evolution not be true? :loco: Clearly the gametes worked together at some stage in the equidae evolutionary history.

    It's interesting to note as well, that donkeys and horses only have a 2 chromosome difference, as do humans and chimps. I'm not suggesting we love up the chimps btw but to wonder why we couldn't love up the chimps.
     
  13. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    Humans are extremely visual with regard to pretty much everything, especially sexual selection, whereas many other animals are stimulated more by olfactory cues. Granted, the differences between horse and donkey smell may be as obvious to them as chimp and human appearance are to us, but several mammal species produce similar phermones when in estrous and males of several other species can more than likely interpret those signals correctly. Also, donkeys and horses are probably more anatomically and behaviorally compatible than humans and chimps are, not to mention the fact that horses and donkeys are likely to interact with each other on a fairly regular basis. By contrast, most humans will probably never touch a chimp in their life.

    Another significant difference is that bipedalism has significantly affected our reproductive anatomy. Humans have narrower, longer hips, and therefore have deeper vaginas, and consequently, humans also have the largest penes of any primate. Chimps are not truly bidpedal though and their posture allows females to undergoe tremendous anogenital swelling during estrous, while female humans have concealed ovulation. Humans and chimps also have vastly different reproductive strategies. Humans pair off based upon social interaction and perceived compatibility, whereas chimps are promiscuous and often rape one another.

    Do to the similar anatomy of horses and donkeys, as well as the absense of culture, no significant evolutionary divergence may have occured that would so drastically reduce their ability to interbreed.
     
  14. Hallucinations

    Hallucinations Dracula has a moon base..

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    Surely the similarities in anatomy has no bearing on whether or not the gametes will fuse?

    I thought this was interesting, though unrelated.
     
  15. Möglich

    Möglich Brahman

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    There has to be some correlation... Anatomy is a function of genes, as is the likelihood that two animals can successfully produce offspring. The degree to which this applies is still in question, though.
     
  16. BlackMetalWhiteGuy

    BlackMetalWhiteGuy Manly Man!

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    Right, the probability of a zygote developing and surviving is based upon chromatic compatibility, which may or may not correlate with anatomical similarity.
    Not necessarily. The overall body shapes of horses and donkeys are the same, as well as their reproductive anatomy. By contrast, humans and chimps are anatomically similar, but due to complete vs. incomplete bipedalism in humans and other apes, our reproductive anatomy is comparatively different. In either case, the two related species can still (in theory) reproduce, although there are no confirmed cases of humans and chimps interbreeding.

    For comparison, all species of snakes look pretty much the same, but still only species that are more closely related on a molecular level can interbreed.
     
  17. Möglich

    Möglich Brahman

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    point taken.
     

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