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Discussion in 'Orphaned Land' started by basil_awami, Mar 11, 2010.
Here is another version of sapari
i am very sure all scholars forbids singing the qura'an and esp with instruments, in the qura'an it self there is a passage that says
" wa ratil al qura'an tarteela" which mean u can do (tarteel) and its totally different from singing
now QuestionS might arise at anyone's head for example like :
1- but its not wirrten do not sing !
2- its not written do not use music instruments
3- do the tarteel with the music instrument and that shouldn't be forbidden
But here is what tarteel means and i tell u whats the logic behind it and why all scholars wouldnt sing or chant with music instruments
becuz the word (tarteel) it self in the arabic dictionary indicated the voice that reads with purity and voice only .. and we believe that everything written in the qura'an it has a definite meaning cuz if god wanted to say anything other than tarteel , then he would include
1-tarteel and singing
2- another reason why we dont , our prophet mohammed Peace be upon him , in all his life and journey he didnt sing the qura'an or chanted with music instruments .. now some ppl might say there were no music instrument at that time ! hell there was ! there was tabla since those days just as there was wine and any ancient thing , the tabla and some other instruments exists , cuz when the prophet peace be upon him went from makkah to madina they sang to him a song with tabla and other things and again i say they sang and we sing it so if it was (halal) and approved u would see ppl do it not becuz its under certain law , for example saudi law only .. cuz if u think about it u just said that u only know that moroccan women can chant the qura'an , if its ok to sing it then u would have heard alot alot of ppl that sings it cuz the passages in it is so deep and beautiful but we believe its more powerful to ratil becuz it gives u this calm spirit inspiration and i guess thats that. and i have talked too much , hope my answer was relevant and useful
Thank you for giving me all details Basil, I'll think that over.
A little precision is needed here , the quote sang by Kobi isn't part of the Qur'an , it is actually very similar to the Aaya in Sourate Ennour : اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِن شَجَرَةٍ مُّبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لّا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ نُّورٌ عَلَى نُورٍ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ . ( Sourate Ennour , verse 35 ) the lyrics are different from the Eeya . It is not Haram my brother .
OL fan from Tunisia .
my brother , i think the verse they took it from the qura'an and i read it in metal-archives it was written that it was took from the qura'an , and u can see it they took a part of it and then they took the last part of it , and only this kinda verse is in the qura'an u wont see it in a passage or another book , we can ask any member of the orphaned land to confirm so !
but i believe that they would say they took it from the qura'an
its like they took the begging and the end of it !
Kobi explained that he worked with an arab friend and they took two ayat of the Light Sourate to have one verse in the end.
But this is not the first time that OL is using parts of the Quran. The first version of "Disciples of the Sacred Oath" was also using a part of it. Because of that, Orphaned Land was one of the targets in a book "Worshippers or Satan and Enemy of God" that could be found in certain Arabic countries...
Still in the ORwarriOR album, the strongest symbol of Islam is symbolising a call to end of war and a call to brotherhood. This is a strong message, specially nowadays as Islam is considered as the new "enemy public n°1" in too many places.
So yes, this is Haram if you apply the strict islamic rules. But in the end this is a personal decision. If I were Muslim, I would be torn indeed. But I think that deeply I would be proud to see my strongest beliefs serving for a call to peace, specially coming from a band of Israelis... This is a personal choice.
oh dont get me wrong BC-A , iam proud and now ppl wil know that quran sends peace meassages ... and ofcourse its one choice to do whatever he wants to deliever a message or explain a feeling.. am just just putting my view so ppl would understand the way we look at it from muslem scope , and beside ... another thing why am sayin that becuz i know there are plenty of metal-heads who loved OL, but i know also some of them gets dissapointed and thus it fires back as being not fan and spreading the word and any other rumor that they make fun of quran or muslems or whatever and they r doing somethin wrong .. but ideas and religion differs , for us its haram , and they r not muslems so its their choice to do what they do and we do what we do , its just as a fan ... many will be dissapointed , anyone would say so what if we lost some fans OL is OL and thats how they deliever the message , true but again to us religion is a red-line even as a die hard fan for example i would lsn to all their songs but not these and what it contains , some will not buy thier cd , some will try and destroy their reputation or they r racits and whatever .. so u can see the true message of it will be fabricated by whom-ever .. i guess taking parts from arabic poems or quotes or anything beautiful rather than quran maybe is better i guess !
but am proud ofcourse
Thank you basil, for discussing so openly with us here. Even if we don't agree it is very good we have a face to face discussion instead of just looking at each other angry. And having a discussion is exactly the thing the band wants to bring about by stirring things up with their lyrics and band photos. With communication comes understanding for the viewpoints of others.
Hello Basil, Salam 3alaikom from Bahrain kaif al7al?
About the songs you mentioned, I can tell you they are all mostly very old Jewish (Hebrew) poems, written by Rabbis centuries ago, the band however composed the music and instrumentation that is accompanied with the song. That's why different versions of for example "Shir Hama'Alot" will sound different depending on the composer, but the lyrics will still be the same.
An Israeli guy once told me that the intro part of Aldiar Al Mukadasa (where they say ya 7abeeby) is an old jewish prayer in wich people sang when they wanted to return to Israel, back when they were in exile, so yeah that maybe it, the outro of the song however is Arabic (where they say bellah 3alayna kollena).
Elmeod Na'ala is also a hebrew prayer, but it's composed using an entirely Arabic scale "maqam al bayat" (which is common in oriental jewish music).
The outro of Be Thy Father I pray is a traditional and very common arabic/middle eastern melody which can be heard in many songs and tunes, it's not necesserly taken or coverd from a song.
Norra El Norra as we all know already was influenced from old egyptian song Samra Ya Samra.
As'alk and Sapari are both old yemenite poems written by Rabbi Shalom Shabazi سالم الشبزي of yemen, the orignal composition I think (according to Ofra Haza's album booklet) is written by great yemenite singer Aharon Amram, who has his own versions of these songs. There are many variations of the song you can find on youtube by yemenite singers such as Ofra Haza, Shlomit Levi, Aharon Amram, Daklon, Shoshana Damari, Shalom Sabari, Zion Golan and so on.
Olat Hat'mid is another poem written by an old Israeli peot Sa'adia something, I think you can hear what may appear as the orignal song in the start/intro of the track, but then that might be composed/played by the band as well, Dunno.
Hope that helped.
EDIT: oh and btw, at the end of Kiss of Babylon there's another yemenite folk song sang by Shlomit, it's called Ahavat Hadasa.
wa 3leekom el salam ! 7mdeallah tammam!
that was a very helpful contribution thanks alot brother !! u almost answered all the Q's in my head , and yah i was going to ask about the scale !
ok here is another Q's for u u seem to know much so am gonna ask u this if u dont mind ..
in ( Disciples Of The Sacred Oath II ) from 2:28 till 3:18 is this an arabic scale or somewhere covered from an arabic song .. cuz am sure i herd it somewhere !! it would be very helpful if u can answer that ! cuz that part uplifts and make me go high !
tc and thnx
well, I remember reading somewhere on a website that the part was written and played in the memory of an old composer, but I'm not sure, and I don't remember the name. but I think the scale is a variation of maqam al 7ijaz but I'm not sure exactly.
As I already was planning, I'm gonna show the part (and the whole song and album) to a cousin of mine who is very much into the arabic music, so maybe he can tell me the name of the scale or original song.
cool cool , i'll be waiting
In Turkey we have more free ways of religious expression. Lately I bought a book of Quran interpretation in which the author integrates the verses with ultra-eccentric approaches.
And what would you think if here we have an oriental rock band called Duman who make fun of Quranic verses?
With that said, still no links of the originals yet
'Sapari' was written by Sa'adiya Ben Amram, 17th Century.
'Olat Hatamid' was written Rabbi Shlomo Ibn Gvirol, 11th Century.
The part you hear at the beginning of the song is a 'Tripoli style' version of the song. There is a wonderful story to that one that Yossi told me in an interview I did with him. If ever I have time I will issue the interview.