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Gaming Thread

Discussion in 'Nevermore' started by Liverslapper, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. WhiteBeastofWotan

    WhiteBeastofWotan Apostitutes!

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    I've been pretty vocal about my fanboyism of the ME series. I thought ME3 was a great game, with exception of course of the last 15 minutes (which was made better by the free extended cut).

    That said,
    I'm glad the new games won't be about Shepard. Shepard's story was about fighting the Reapers, its time for a new hero.
     
  2. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    I liked ME1, loved ME2, but never got around to playing ME3. I don't know, with all the things I've seen and heard, the series just doesn't interest me much anymore :(
     
  3. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    I thought I loved ME1, but then ME2 came out and pretty much eradicated almost everything that I liked about the previous game to bits (in a good way). Played ME3, and it was honestly a pretty big disappointment for me.

    It had probably the most boring squad selection imaginable (thanks lame romance fan service shit!) and easily one of the worst, shoehorned squad members of the entire series. There was literally only one character I cared about at all and another two that were "kind of cool", but still throwaway, one of which was DLC.

    A lot of people also love to go on and on about how it had "the best" gameplay, combat wise of the series. It really didn't, at all. The responsiveness may have improved, but the way they setup each set peice just sucked. The game devolved into a shooting gallery, and the way enemies would sometimes just "skate" around was just awful. It literally felt like you were shooting targets at a carnival on a conveyor that could sometimes hit you back. Not sure if you ever played Bioshock Infinite, but if you did, that should give you a clear idea what to expect...zzz. The second game was the most balanced of the three in terms of gameplay, interaction and story, even if the third "brought back the RPG elements!" supposedly. Oh wow, you could evolve your powers further and you could mod weapons! Really didn't help mitigate the banal action and stages. All in the name of chasing COD.

    I have probably replayed ME2 around twelve times, if not more. I couldn't even get halfway through my second ME3 playthrough.

    Currently replaying Skyrim...believe it or not. I absolutely hated the game after about a week upon release. So much about it was just broken, and my initial character build was complete trash on even Adept, because of the way they had setup the magic system, while my second became nearly invincible on Master difficulty before even needing to actually fight much of anything. Many mods later, trying to find something to make it worth revisiting and I just gave up for two and a half years (purchased, but never played Dawnguard). Just built a pretty strong, single card gaming PC recently and wanted to see what I could do with Skyrim now that a ton of really awesome mods are out and very well matured on top of actually playing Dawnguard and Dragonborn.

    Well, the combat still mostly sucks, but mods can't really do anything about it other than tweak numbers or add in "special" move animations that look really janky, but at least the game looks incredible and I have way more character customization. Also using either Skyre or Requiem completely changes the way you deal with the combat. It's still bad, but those overhuals change enough that makes it a lot more exciting over vanilla.

    There's a mod for just about anything now, except one major issue many people had with vanilla; guild ascension. I'm not sure how hard it would be to make a mod that sets many additional requirements before becoming lord and master of whatever guild you choose to easily take over in a few hours, but so far no one has done it yet. If you are someone with a little self-control and you want to stick to doing things that your character would and would not do (i.e. you wouldn't become Arch Mage as a purely melee or missile class), you can easily just ignore those guilds. But you can't really RP your way out of the shitty progression aside from setting up your own roadblocks, such as doing X boring fedex tasks before continuing with the main guild quests. Funny thing is that I never finished Oblivion. Spent about 100 hours on it, but never even got two-thirds of the way through the main quest. However, the guild quests in that game were fucking fantastic, although I suppose they were also the only quests that were really well done anyway.
     
  4. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    Yeah, all the things you talk about made up the reasons why I didn't even play ME3 - shitty romance fanservice, "streamlined" combat, cutting corners, all kinds of EA meddling... Dragon Age 2 already showed me what ME3 would be like, and that made me decide I'll wait until it's very deep in the bargain bin.

    And Skyrim's guild progression, yeah, it's pretty stupid, but then, that has always been part of Elder Scrolls games, ever since Morrowind (in Daggerfall, it took ages to gain even a single rank in a guild). I use SkyRe too, but as you say, it can't make the combat itself less crappy (click until opponent dies). Again,t hat's always been part of TES games.
     
  5. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a6oKEDYdJM
     
  6. Det Som Engang Var

    Det Som Engang Var Viking Bastard

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    Mass Effect 3 is literally the most disappointing game of my life.
     
  7. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    Hmm, I can't honestly say that it felt anything like what happened with DA 2 actually. There was a lot to like about it, but at the same time, the gameplay really just turned into a mindless shooter and even though you had more control over your powers, it just seemed like there was even less reason to use them than ever before. I haven't bothered trying to replay it since all of the DLC came out, and I'm still kind of interested in the Citadel DLC.

    I'd also be lying if I said I wasn't interested at all about ME4, but so far I don't really know what I should expect, because I haven't heard anything. Well, aside from that stupid conference video that looks more like one of those commercials trying to sell you on some new tech to buy.

    Not sure if I could go that far, but it definitely was a huge diappointment considering how enamored I was with ME2.

    I also didn't completely despise DA2 though, despite all of the massive recycling and bad aspects. I actually kind of liked it only slightly less than Origins (which just felt like another recycled NWN or any other previous Infinity engine type game and with very dated graphics). DA3 looks quite promising, if at least even half of what they have been showing and saying actually makes the cut.
     
  8. Det Som Engang Var

    Det Som Engang Var Viking Bastard

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    It looks promising, but remember, most of Biowares good staff is gone. They really aren't the same Bioware anymore. I'm telling you, it will flop.

    You guys didn't believe me when I told you ME2 would be dumbed down.
    Didn't believe me when I said Dragon Age 2 would be shit.
    Didn't believe me when I said ME3 would be a train wreck.
    Didn't believe me when I said The Old Republic would fail.

    I'm telling you again, Bioware is a sinking ship and EA will do away with them completely, soon enough.
     
  9. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    I seriously laugh every single time someone mentions how ME2 was "dumbed down". Because any kind of streamlining is a form of dumbing down apparently. Really, I've been playing cRPG, console RPGs and PnP for the better half of 30 years now and stats and inventory never bothered me until someone finally decided to clean that shit up, and now I can't really stand most inventories (just depends on the game). The inventory system of Mass Effect was fucking awful. I actually feel bad for anyone that had to play the game on the console. I rented it when it first came out, played it for five hours, then said fuck this shit. Gave it another chance once it hit PC (and goddamn was I glad that I did, but the inventory was still crap even with a better UI).

    Most of the weapon upgrades you picked up were converted into omnigel, and you either started ignoring most things or you just sifted through a list of 60+ items to convert or sell so that you could grab the best X armors, the cooldown + regen armor upgrades and either Tungsten, Shredder or the occasional HEX ammos and that's it.

    In the case of the skill trees and stats; this is where people seem to get their panties in a bunch the most over, and it's goddamn ridiculous. The exact same investment is in ME2, but instead of having to dump four points to get a 20% upgrade or whatever, you would just buy one of four ranks in ME2 for that same percentage, and the points took longer to get. It was the same goddamn thing. I mean who the fuck would only dump 2-4 points into any given trees for a character and stop in the first game? No one who was actually trying to be efficient, that's who.

    The combat was vastly improved too in the second game. Squad AI was still dumb as shit, even when fully controlling them, but they were still leagues beyond what the first game offered and this time around you actually had legitimate "classes" instead of three base classes and a bunch of hybrids that basically played really similar to the base class, but with a twist. The game was always supposed to be a shooter/RPG hybrid. That's what Bioware always said it was from the very start, and it's just people on forums bemoaning how ME2 was no longer an "RPG" that the first game was. The first game had absolute shit combat, but it was fun because of biotics and ragdolling people. Because of that shit combat, and because of the stats, interesting premise and story, it seems like people forget that it wasn't meant to be just an RPG. ME2 didn't perfect combat, but it made it a lot closer to what they were initially aiming for with the first game.

    The biggest downside initially to me with ME2 was how Biotics was inadvertantly nerfed through the shield/armor bullshit mechanic. It really made playing an Adept feel weak as hell compared to practically any other class. I still don't like them now, even though I've easily beaten Insanity with them. I do however think that the ME2 Vanguard is probably the funnest class I have ever played in just about any action/adventure/RPG type video game ever. Aside from the random charge bugs, it just never got old. Bioware also upped the presentation of the series by a huge amount over the first. The universe was so much more realized and had a much better, fleshed out and cohesive aesthetic. In retrospect, the only thing the first game did better to me was the story. It just felt more epic and urgent, but the second game's "story" was really all of the squad quests, which made it a lot less epic in feel, but a lot more personal. ME3 tweaked the combat even further, but I've already mentioned why I don't like that game. Hell, I would replay it despite the combat if it at least had more than two interesting squadmates, and if I could drop Vega off on Virmire with a bomb.

    Bioware has not flopped with any game yet have they? Even with the backlash from DA2, they still made money off of it; especially when you consider how much less they spent on it compared to the first game (which sold only 4.2 million). They have even openly admitted many of the faults with DA2 and seem to have honestly been trying to correct that mistake. Yep, they are in it for the money like any other company, and EA is just more pre$$ure to be sure, but they still have loads of talent and haven't completely sold out yet. You can't really fault them either for trying to grab the widest audience with how expensive these games are to make. You couldn't have the Mass Effect or Dragon Age series on an indie budget. If ME4 ends up being almost a straight up shooter, with just random cutscenes, oh well, I won't be buying it. But at least there will always be ME2. I'm also not sure how DA3 could possibly be as bad as DA2 (which I very much liked many aspects of), and it looks like they are going for a lot better controls when you are playing in real time (almost like a slower action game) as well as still giving you the full tactical setup if you want to play it that way, even on the console versions.

    The games I am most looking forward to are:

    The Witcher 3
    Lords of the Fallen
    Dragon Age 3
    The Evil Within
    Bloodborne
    Bayonetta 2
    Xenoblade Chronicles X (formerly just X)
    Mass Effect 4 (possibly)

    Also, why the fuck would EA dump a development group that constantly makes them money?
     
  10. Det Som Engang Var

    Det Som Engang Var Viking Bastard

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    Oh, they turned a profit, sure. That isn't hard to do when you're backed by EA. But it won't continue to happen. People are waking up.

    Good games like The Witcher 3 will pave the way. Dark Souls. The revival is already happening.
     
  11. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    Eh, no. Despite the Souls games being my favorite series of last gen (Mass Effect was until FROM released three really good games as opposed to only one and a half), they are still very much a niche series compared to practically anything Bioware puts out.

    If by "waking up" you mean people force-fed and raised on 2005+ gaming realizing that isn't all there is, and that it's not necessarily the best approach either...okay. I can agree with that sentiment, but those people still will never outweigh "the masses". Mass Effect 3 is a truly ironic name now.

    And hell, I liked The Witcher a lot when it was first released (it's still very playable even today), and absolutely loved The Witcher 2, yet that doesn't prevent the legions of "RPGers" bitching about how it had a shit story, shit characters and (both games) "shit combat". Not sure if they didn't play the game prior to the two or three nerf patches that made combat almost mindless, but it was pretty brutal for the uninitiated upon PC release. It wasn't as hard as a Souls game like many claimed, but it was pretty brutal. Until you learned how to abuse Quen and then the game was trivial. Without Quen though, it could be really difficult at certain points.

    Oh, and I doubt you could really get away with claiming that Stormo isn't an informed gamer, and he can't fucking stand the Souls games. :)

    FWIW, CD Projekt was quickly becoming one of my favorite developers. They do however take ages to release anything. Hopefully Cyberpunk is released before 2016.

    http://www.gamespot.com/videos/e3-2014-dragon-age-inquisition-stage-show/2300-6419573/ < Fail?

    I still think Dragon's Dogma perfected the action type of combat for an RPG--if you have not played that game, you should, despite all of its downfalls...which the expansion helps mitigate somewhat--but I think this looks very promising.
     
  12. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    Yeah I'm with Sdraw on this. It's like with Final Fantasy XIII. People seem to forget that while maybe some games aren't very good when compared to the rest of a series, they are still very good games when evaluated on their own. DA2 wasn't a very good game compared to DA:O (especially the shitty writing, I could forgive everything else, but the character writing was angsty fanfic shit), but as a game, purely on its own merit, it was still a very decent game. And ME2 wasn't dumbed down. Like Sdraw said, remember the inventory system of ME? That was some of the most horrible shit in existence. Hell, the greatest battles were the ones you waged with your inventory. How that got past QA, I'll never know. ME2 improved a lot on just about every aspect of ME. The only thing that really bothered me about ME2 was the blatant fanservice, which, I'm told, only got worse with ME3.
     
  13. Det Som Engang Var

    Det Som Engang Var Viking Bastard

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    I thought Mass Effect 2 was even better than the first, despite the streamlining, but the third was simply inexcusable. I'm not exaggerating Stormy, and that's even including all the ridiculous plotholes.

    And as much as I wanted to like Final Fantasy XIII, (and I tried, many times) that "battle" system was horrendous. It's like turn based but even worse.

    Now, I'll respect your opinions on those games, but please tell me you aren't defending Dragon Age 2. It was the apex of what's wrong with gaming today. The reused environments, static/generic characters, predictable story line, boring atmosphere, piss-poor writing, enemies that spawn over and over out of no where. There is no excusing that. At least Oblivion had a few good qualities despite being a complete failure. Dragon Age 2.... I can't think of one.
     
  14. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    I personally found the combat and character abilities in DA2 vastly superior to what was in Origins. The aesthetics are debateable too. Some of the art looked pretty good, and at least updated, while much was very underwhelming. Not all of the writing was terrible either. Not sure if you actually paid any attention to the actual dialogue, but a lot of it was actually quite good for all but your character due to the dialogue wheel. Origins was just more of the same. It was literally any NWN (and previous) game from Bioware or even Obsidian. Done to death and quite stale by the time of release. The graphics were extremely outdated once it was finally released too.

    As far as party members go, it had no one comparable to Morrigan, Alistair or even Leliana. Varric was probably the only party member I found interesting at all aside from Anders, but Anders wasn't technically new anyway.

    Not going to lie though, the atmosphere, party members and just overall first impressions with DA:O were a lot more impressive and memorable. DA2 was pretty much worse in every way aside from (debateable) the graphics and definitely not in combat. I know a lot of people cried because it didn't have the same boring top down, pause and play, auto attack for eternity until something dies "gameplay", but I wasn't one of them. The worst thing about the combat to me was the dumb "ANOTHER WAVE!" mechanic. Not only was it fucking annoying, it threw out any sense of tactics a lot of the time, and it felt like it was just used to pad out the playing time.

    I will never see Final Corridor XIII as anything other than the turd that it was. And I wasn't comparing it to the previous games as hard as many did. The fact of the matter is the combat literally played itself, the dungeon design was just awful and one the most linear I've ever seen even for a "modern" RPG, and almost none of the party members were interesting at all. Two or three of them in fact were some of the most annoying in any FF game ever. Just because the game "opens up" at around the 10 - 13 hour mark doesn't make it worth dealing with everything else.
     
  15. Det Som Engang Var

    Det Som Engang Var Viking Bastard

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    Cheers. I agree with most of that.

    Morrowind is still the best WRPG of all time, though. Followed by Nevewinter Nights 2 plus expansions.

    JRPGS? Persona 4 and Shin Megami Tensei IV for the 3DS. imo.
     
  16. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    Lies. No game will ever beat Planescape: Torment.
     
  17. Det Som Engang Var

    Det Som Engang Var Viking Bastard

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    I loved that game, but I was too young to appreciate it at the appropriate time. Never did beat it, does it work on Windows 7?
     
  18. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    Sure does. Get the widescreen mod and you've got great resolution too.
     
  19. Talking Backwards

    Talking Backwards Senior Citizen

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    Some would argue Baldur's Gate 2. Regardless, you can't really go wrong with any that have been mentioned, because they are all up there in quality.
    Pillars of Eternity might end up being pretty good too...
     
  20. El Stormo

    El Stormo Member

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    Some would be wrong. My opinion is fact.
     

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