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Hatred in Metal Scene...

Discussion in 'Children Of Bodom' started by StealthHunter, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. Mystique1721

    Mystique1721 bass solo, take one

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    wonderfully stated.


    @The Butt: I understand how art is supposed to be provoking, but when someone shits on a plate and it gets put in a museum such as the Modern Museum of Art in New York City, I think that's just going too far. It's undermining the whole concept of art. That particular museum is filled with stuff like that and I was so disappointed when I was looking at the exhibitions, to see that this is what art has become. the majority of works there lack any artistic value whatsoever; it's as if someone can just take a paint brush and splatter random dots on the canvas, and voila, it's art. all this "abstract" art isn't abstract at all. It's either drug-influenced or just sloppy shit that has failed to be what the artist's first intention was. So they resort to making this type of "art" instead. sad.
     
  2. Brutal Hate

    Brutal Hate Member

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    The Butt has a point here. BM isn't for everyone. Some like it and some don't. But you can't say it's not art because the lack of playing skills or shitty sounds. It' the part of the whole thing, you gotta get into it.

    Do you think bands like Trivium or Bullet for My Valentine are more like art just because those are played professionally and have "clean" sound? I think not, the music they play is called sell-out.

    Who are you to judge? You spanish people kill bulls just for fun.
     
  3. Fakeillusion

    Fakeillusion Bodombass Player

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    I've just read the whole thread and there's nothing i would disagree with. I mean, the Bodom t-shirt thing... I have some experience with the guy that called me emo when i was actually wearing Bodom t-shirt... well my hair is completely straight and growing long, but it's not the only thing right? I mean original emo was punk right? but i look nothing like punk :D and that guy kept saying that i am deffinitely emo, he said something about that the reaper is emo and some kinds of crap... all arguments failed
    But what i hate the most is when someone starts bitching about CoB... I don't know why, but sometimes i literaly see the Red Light In My Eyes :D i mean, i can't see theres something wrong with them and when i hear these people talking I can say how close minded and dumb they are, and that is even worse than if they known CoB

    and btw, it is wierd that in my country actually is massive population of "metal haters", but that all have been said...
     
  4. eveningninja

    eveningninja Skull Kid

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    ^ Welcome to the board! :)
     
  5. The Butt

    The Butt Unholy gas, flares from my ass

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    "Sounds like fucking shit" is pretty subjective tbh. I think a lot of NWOBHM/speed metal blows chunks (and fun fact: Butt actually finds the majority of thrash boring), but naturally, I'm sure a lot of people, probably you included, would disagree.

    Those bands are good despite the ultra-precise playing, not because of it. And tbh, I consider them to be rare exceptions. I like Brutal Hate's comparison; Trivium and BFMV have really precise playing... does that make them good, or more enjoyable? No.

    Good music is good music, regardless of the precision of the playing, or the production.
    In the same vein, bad music is bad music, regardless of the precision/production.

    Incredibly flawed argument. When it comes to math, there are rigid sets of rules that must be followed. There is no room for leeway. When it comes to music, a form of art, there are no "rules". It just needs to represent the artists vision, and provoke thought.

    "Imho" being the key words here. I like live albums, but I also really like studio albums that sound "live", and sound like they were done in one or two takes. Makes the music sound more honest.

    Then our definitions of raw here differ my friend. I don't consider those bands particularly raw at all. In-your-face, yeah, but they're not particularly raw at all IMO.

    I have a couple problems with this:

    A) This brings me to what I said above. Good music is good music, regardless of the production.

    B) Different people have different margins of tolerance for harsher, more abrasive sounds. Naturally, there will be people with higher tolerance, and there will be people with a smaller margin of tolerance. The problem is not with the music itself, but rather the fact that you fall into the latter category. I know this is gonna make me sound like a massive elitist, but simply put, you are not the target audience that this music is aimed at.​

    I don't agree with the anti-christian ideologies, or even the actions, of most BM bands (being somewhat religious myself)... but whatever they believe is their business. It doesn't affect the quality of the music, so it's really not relevant.

    See above.

    I find it pretty biased that one would compare raw BM to "shitting on a plate". :rolleyes:
     
  6. Mystique1721

    Mystique1721 bass solo, take one

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    no, no. I wasn't making a direct comparison. I'm just saying, there are bands out there, as there are artists, who purposely try to be different in what they do. It's not like it comes natural to them, and it's not like they are doing it for themselves (they're not genuine); but rather, they are doing it for the shock value or just for what the audience will think of them. It seems a lot of post-modern "artists" are doing this. It's pretty disgusting imho.
     
  7. Yaow!

    Yaow! Member

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    Alrighty guys, you seem to be struggling with this one so I'm gonna help you out and explain why people like me dislike CoB. I do not HATE CoB, and in fact they were the band that first got me into metal, but i like to think ive moved on to bigger and better things in my metalhead career.
    Let's break this down into buts.

    First, lyrics, i sincerely hope that there isn't anyone on this board that thinks that cob's lyrics are good in any way whatsoever and that i don't have to argue the point further. I know when I listend to cob, it was certainly not for the lyrics.

    Now to address the question of cob being too mainstream or not. It has been mentioned earlier that cob is popular because it's "good". this is false. Not saying that cob isnt good, but good should not be confused with accessible. There are plenty of good bands that are mainstream and plenty of good bands that are underground, i doubt anyone here would argue that point. at the end of the day, what really decides whether a band will be popular, mainstream, commercial, etc. is their accesibility. Alexi's vocals are just soft enough not to offend all listeners and the guitar riffs are just catchy enough to get a second or third listen from a skeptic. All of the songs are written in 4/4 time signatures, and everything but the solos consist of eighth and sixteenth notes. This all adds up to simple, uninventive rhythmic patterns, which in fact is what most people are familiar with and enjoy hearing, and this is exactly what people like me who listen to technical death metal (the faceless, obscura, necriphagist) and prog metal (opeth, dream theater) hate hearing in music, its boring to us. So now i've just explained why cob are popular and it's not because they are "good", they are popular because they are accessible and whether or not they are good is for each listener to decide, whatever their conclusions they may draw. And of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying simple, accessible music like cob or slipknot. it just really isnt interesting to me as there is nothing particularly innovative about their straightforward music.
    You'll find that this is one of the main reasons amongst metal fans for not liking mainstream music.

    Now where does all this get transfered into hate? as i said i do not hate cob, but i will tell you what does really get me pissed off at cob,slipknot, etc fans. and you'll this is the same for a lot of the underground metal fans who "hate" cob. I have explained how cob is simple music, and it really is, this does not make it bad. BUT it is really annoying when cob fans do not acknowledge that cob is simple and that there is so much better musicianship in the underground metal scenes. cob fans (and when i was one i did the same) worship alexi laiho. now it is very important that everybody here understands that alexi laiho is an extremely average guitar player. this does not mean that you can't enjoy his catchy riffs and melodies. but being able to shred fast does NOT make somebody a good guitar player. in the more underground death metal scene their are guitarists like Michael Keene, Christian Muenzner, Fredrik Thordendal. These guys are all aeons ahead of the likes of alexi laiho in terms of compositional skills, rhythmic AND lead guitar playing. Now again i would like to stress that alexi not being the worlds greatest guitarist, does not mean you can't enjoy his music, but a failure to acknowledge that technically speaking, cob are at the bottom of the scale is infuriating to a guy like me.

    Now i'm a little bit tired of writing but no doubt this will spark some more interesting debate.
     
  8. Brutal Hate

    Brutal Hate Member

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    ^ +1

    That was great post.

    I have to comment on the lyric point you made.

    It's really annoying when one says that CoB lyrics suck (Yes they suck) and then some fanboi comes and says that he only listens to actual music and ignores the lyrics. I mean WTF?!? For me the lyrics are about a half of the song. Espesially in BM lyrics are really important and by ignoring them, you would lose a lot of the message.
     
  9. vitorias123

    vitorias123 Faceless

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    Indeed a great post
     
  10. Lussi

    Lussi Member

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    I honestly don't give a fuck about their lyrics ! and maybe some of you need to stop being so serious about music. No lyrics aren't always important. You can leave a message differently then in the lyrics, it's a composition, you need to take the song as a whole thing. For you they are important but it's your point of view and it's what you like.

    I seriously don't need nobody to tell me how I must consider Alexi Laiho compare to other supposedly greater musicians nobody cares about them. Doing such music he does isn't that easy. What I like about his work, is that it's actually accessible, fun and audible. They don't bore me. It's just a pleasure to hear their work cause they simply don't sound pretentious. And Alexi being an average guitar player :lol:

    To be honest I'm totally unable to listen to many bands in the same music genre. And arguing about who's mainstream and who's not is totally not realistic when you know this genre isn't popular.
     
  11. Mystique1721

    Mystique1721 bass solo, take one

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    I also agree that was a great post. Good to look at it from that point of view. And although I see your point that Alexi isn't as good as some of the other metal guitarists out there, I must correct you when you say that this makes him an average player. Think about how many people there are out there who play guitar and don't take it as seriously as real musicians do. The average guitar player lacks knowledge of music theory, lacks the ability to shred, do proper vibrato, etc. Alexi does not fit into this category at all. To get to Alexi's level it takes a lot of practice and dedication. He is most definitely ABOVE average when it comes to his guitar skills. Just because he doesn't measure up to Fredrik Thordendal does not necessarily make him a worse player, but rather, one of different style. He focuses on melody whereas Fredrik specializes in rhythm.


    @Lussi: I completely agree about the lyrics. I could care less what he's screaming about, as long as the vocal melody is suiting to the music in the song. The music is always what makes me say yay or nay to a song anyway. Tho I must admit, if the tone/sound of the vocals are bad, then I usually stay away from it.
     
  12. Necroraven

    Necroraven Member

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    It was indeed a great post. But to comment that "Alexi is an average guitar player". He maybe technically average if you compare him to the world's best guitarists, but for me at least, guitar playing is more than just technique. Alexi's style is what I like in his playing, not only his ability to shred, since there are many who can shred faster. What he loses in technique, he wins is style. And that makes him a good guitar player, not a average, in my opinion.

    And for the whole subject: Personally I don't hate any band or music style, but fanatic fans, are what I dislike.
     
  13. vitorias123

    vitorias123 Faceless

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    I think that lyrics are important,through the words and music u can really feel
    what they wanna say with their music,thats why i hate stupid lyrics and stupid music.
    For me listening to music means growing,learning and discovering smth new,not just thinking that this or that band is the best band in the world.
    I got an impression that a lot of you thinks that cause alexi is not tehnical so good and still can write good music,and that some guitar players are tehnical better it means that they are boring or smth like that.As far as i know Alexi said smth like that abt DT and John Petrucci,correct me if im wrong.
    It still means that Alexi had good songs with good melodies and everything, and dont get me wrong i like their older songs but a lot of tehinical better bands players have way better melodies and songs,but fangirls made him``guitar god``
     
  14. Fakeillusion

    Fakeillusion Bodombass Player

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    I think, maybe you're right in some point, but I don't think it were just a "fangirls". And if so... I'm one big "fangirl" and I am proud of it :)
     
  15. valkokukka

    valkokukka I can still feel it

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    I agree with you. I obviously don't take music as serious as most of peolpe here. I don't care about lyrics that much, I actually prefer english and scream & growl vocals because it's easier to ignore lyrics. Sometimes I do listen lyrics and read them from booklets but 90% of them suck IMO. Most the good ones are written by poets or novelist.

    What lyrics do you consider as a good ones? (not Lussi but everyone)


    better better better...Why everything has to be rated? I think it's quite impossible rate bands, guitarist or music in general. Sure I prefer Alexi over Petrucci because I like Alexi's style more (probably because I grew up with (stadium) hard rock/heavy metal where show was important and guitars had attitude). But do I think Alexi is better? Honestly I don't care, I just listen what please my ear.
     
  16. vitorias123

    vitorias123 Faceless

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    Its not true that 90% lyrics suck,depends on what uve been listening:)
    Motorhead,Death,Opeth,PoS,DT,Bruce Dickinson,Edguy,Evergrey,
    Death,Queensryche,Black Sabbath,Shadow Gallery,Nevermore,Savatage,Carcass,Accept,Saturnus,Megadeth are,in my opinion metal bands with the best lyrics ever.Metal bands have allways tried to express their attitude toward world,politic,all opposite to other popular music.For example while Micheal Jackson had ``billy jean``megadeth had``peace sells,but whos buying``.
    Good lyrics are the lyrics which can touch you,can tell u smth good,lyrics are important part of every music genre and a band itself,and not like COB where every 2nd word is ``fuck``,``motherfucker`` and so on.Dont u think its degrading?
     
  17. Brutal Hate

    Brutal Hate Member

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    Rotten Sound, Deathspell Omega, Opeth, Leviathan etc. Most of BM bands have good and meaningful lyrics.
     
  18. Lussi

    Lussi Member

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    I agree with you Vitorias about these bands and their lyrics. Some bands are really good at writing lyrics and I like them for that. Some aren't really good at that or don't feel it's important and as English is not my mother tongue I'm fine with it cause as Valkokukka said, I don't need to focus on them. For the kind of music COB does, I don't care of the lyrics, I even like some sentences we can "sing" with them :lol:. On the other hand, they are some bands which I like for their music (of course) but also for their lyrics, for their messages etc... and I can be very critical. So all depends of the band, the music.

    Oh and I don't think it's degrading to use "fuck" or "motherfucker" a lot in COB's songs. They play on that, it's not serious imo. I can understand some can be annoyed and I am with some other bands but not with them cause I expect that from them.

    The only critic I would do is about their song's construction (is it right?). It's often the same and I would love them to surprise me in the next one :)
     
  19. valkokukka

    valkokukka I can still feel it

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    How come you can say it's not true? In my opinion most of the lyrics suck and that is why I'm not that interested of them. And I've listened to my share of music ;)

    I find political and "attitude towards world" lyrics mostly corny and ridiculous. Megadeth lyrics amuse me, I have this mental image Dave sitting on white leather couch and writing those lyrics and feeling the pain of the solders in the war. Motörhead, BD, BS, Evergrey, well I can't see what is so great on their lyrics. Opeth lyrics are quite nice. Honestly it's great that those lyrics give something for you, but they don't give anything for me :)

    Now I'm feeling quite cold person because lyrics very rarely touch me :D. Melodies and emotional guitar solos are more often touching for me than lyrics.

    Degrading? No. If that is how he feels then he is free to express it, it's his music. I don't seek any deeper meaning from his lyrics (or anyone else's), although "I don't give a flying fuck" always make me wonder...;)


    Some of the Rotten sound lyrics are quite hypocrite, lyrics about evil corporate world when singer is working in the big international company...
     
  20. Lussi

    Lussi Member

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    Same for me !
     

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