This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Join the Chaos

Want to join in with the rest of the Hate Crew? Sign up today!

Hatred in Metal Scene...

Discussion in 'Children Of Bodom' started by StealthHunter, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. Brutal Hate

    Brutal Hate Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Suomi Finland Perkele!
    Just listening to the same CoB songs all over again doesn't make you all knowing about lyrics. Listen Deathspell Omega. That's great example of what GOOD lyrics are.

    :rolleyes: You really don't understand those lyrics...
     
  2. mocobhc

    mocobhc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,267
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    near Hoffenheim
    ... oooooooh Miia, you seem to have hit someone´s sensible point :Smug:
     
  3. vitorias123

    vitorias123 Faceless

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    8,599
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Nepal
     
  4. Yaow!

    Yaow! Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Sherbrooke, Quebec
    You are absolutely right and i should have made that more clear in my post. When I say that alexi is an average guitar player I mean that on a technically level he is quite average. As others pointed out what makes a guitar player "good" is very subjective, some might not consider that being technically superior makes you a better player
     
  5. Lussi

    Lussi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,263
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Bleu...Blanc...! Rouge !!
    I don't need an egomaniac rockstar to write hypocrite stuff to "change the world".
     
  6. children of COB

    children of COB Deadnight Drinker

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    7,463
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Averno
    ^:worship:

    Not that they are art, but the sound isn't instantly annoying. Then the music can suck balls (which imho does a lot, specially Trivium except a couple of songs), but the sound is not bad.

    Who are you to judge either? Also, I don't think that harming animals just for the sake of it can be judged.

    And yes indeed here in Spain aka Europe's most retarded country people does enjoy bullfighting, or at least most of them does. But fortunately not all, and I'm happy to count myself amongst the people who doesn't like it. I actually pretty much hate it, so I'd be glad if you didn't put me into that group of people :) Stereotypes are not fun. I don't think you'll like it if I call you suicidal, yet a ridiculously huge lot people here in dumbland belive scandinavians are all suicidal (then again they consider football and Eurovision culture, but whatever).

    Well, to some point it can be subjective, but I really don't think that saying that a band that plays out of tune, making chords up and cranking the amp at max and just pointlessly screams (all of that out of time) sounds like shit it's subjective, and a lot of underground (meaning small local/national low budget bands) do sound like that, and I don't see what is fun about music if you can't decipher what a band is ''playing''. Which doesn't mean that I sa you have to like Slayer and Destruction.

    Do you think that Sinergy or Necrophagist would be the same with Burzum's sound?

    The core can be, but shit sound and shit playing fuck it up, at least for me. If something can be played good, I don't see why it should be played worse. I don't see what that adds to the music.

    There are no strict rules, somehow true, but there are actually some, and if we speak of playing yes there are. Tight playing is better than sloopy playing always. I'm sorry but the ''I play this wrong/worse than I could cos it sounds better/angrier/rawer/more underground/...'' argument is an "I'm a lame player but can't admit it" argument.

    If they sound like done in a couple of good takes (a bit of hiss or a dead note every minute it's ok) then it's ok, but not when 3/5 notes are played wrong/out of time/out of tune/...

    So what's raw for you? For me raw is recording in the studio what you'll bring live, which is, e.g. in a 4 member (2 guitars, bass, drums and one guitar player sings) two rythm guitar tracks, one bass track, one drum track (ok, one per cymball/tom/bass drum, yeah, but you get my point), one lead track and a maximum of 4 vocals. And also not using a shitload of effects which you won't have live.

    No comment on A, but on B yes it does sound elitist but, more than elitist, sounds like a fucking lame excuse. "You don't like my music because it's not intented for you". I'm sorry, but I don't like some underground BM (which, again, is not Darkthrone or Burzum or Immortal or those bands) because they play out of time, sometimes even out of tune and many times purposefuly looking for the most "raw" (I call it shit) sound. But it's not the sound itself what makes me not like them, it's the purposeful search for it, the search for a hard to hear track.

    Inearthed/Vader/Phagist/... demos have shitty sound too, but it's because they didn't have more money to do them and they did their best, and the playing is really good though. And then as they got more money they recorded with better sound quality.

    If it was just what they belived I wouldn't care, but when it affects other people (and it doesn't have exactly good effects, I don't think anyone likes being beaten up for the sake of it) I do care.
     
  7. valkokukka

    valkokukka I can still feel it

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,727
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Finland
    I think these comments just show how difficult it's to interpret text. If you would have understood my point comments above would have been unnecessary. Also I find it quite amusing that you two think you know what I have been listening past 22 years :loco:.

    I believe everyone interpret lyrics differently based on their own experiences and expectational. If one looks for answers she'll find them no matter what writer originally though of as well as if one has cynical attitude toward lyrics she'll find them amusing and hypocrite. Just that you interpret lyrics in one way doesn't make it truth and other interpretation false.
     
  8. (__Joonas__)

    (__Joonas__) † Followed the Reaper †

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    169
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Finland
    Most of COB's lyrics and half of the vocals are mediocre, I agree. However there's brilliant stuff in it as well, but you can't compare it to for example Death who have awesome lyrics and vocals. Alexi does however have many different styles of vocals he's used over the years, some of them are goddamn brilliant as are some lines of lyrics, but generally they're not the bench mark.

    Well, I think the main thing about COB is that it sounds good, and is also difficult and fairly complex to play. You can't expect everyone to think the more complex and weird the playing is, the better it is. Overall COB is still my favourite music by a mile, I enjoy it best.

    I'm sensing you have a problem with COB sounding too good in a simple fashion so it doesn't give you a challenge to like it. But can you post a video of a song you think is so much higher up there than COB? Maybe I can learn something. Of course if there will be a band I someday enjoy more than COB, then that would just be cool indeed.
     
  9. Yaow!

    Yaow! Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Sherbrooke, Quebec
    give the faceless a few listens, they've become one of my favourite bands recently:


    Also obscura, containing 2 ex necrophagist members:
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mesr2sieg[/ame]
     
    #149 Yaow!, May 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015
  10. vitorias123

    vitorias123 Faceless

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    8,599
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Nepal
    A lot of bands are better,from melodeath and power bands(i dont think its right to compare progressive bands with COB,cause COB has nothing to do with it)whatever genre u consider COB to be,for example when it comes to death melodic Carcass has way better riffs,solos,lyrics and vocals than COB,as a matter of fact when i heard Heartwork for the 1st time i got sick of COB,cause i realised COB is very very far away from Carcass when it comes to everything

    but at the end why to bother,if i think its better its still not better for some ppl. Its just matter of taste
     
    #150 vitorias123, May 25, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015
  11. The Butt

    The Butt Unholy gas, flares from my ass

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    10,819
    Likes Received:
    943
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Neutral Zone
    As I said, "bad" is subjective. There are people with a higher tolerance for abrasive sounds... rawer BM is merely metal targeted at those people.

    If you don't like how harsh raw BM is then fine, but don't go saying that it's "bad" merely because you don't understand the musical aims of the genre.

    You make it seem like this happens a lot. Point me to a raw BM band you've heard that does this please. I don't think I've ever heard one that actually "plays out of tune" or "out of time".

    And "pointlessly screams"? This statement reeks of bias.

    Tbh I do like Slayer (haven't heard Destruction), but I was just making a point.

    But I can decipher notes and whatnot just fine, even with the rawer sound. It does take effort, but BM has never been a genre about shredding, having fun, and rocking out. It's meant to put one in a trance, take one on a journey. The two genres have different musical aims... this is what you fail to realize here.

    I don't. The rawer and admittedly sloppier sound of Burzum would not work with really shreddy music like Sinergy or Phagist. (Short aside: I prefer Burzum over the two other bands tbh, despite Varg's sloppy playing)

    I have a question: Would a band like Ildjarn sound better with a sound more like Sinergy? I think quite the opposite tbh.

    ALL I am saying, is that playing precision, is not everything, ESPECIALLY in a genre that couldn't give two shits about acrobatics, like BM. If you are expecting the genre to be played with top-notch playing all the time, you miss the point entirely. This is an example where feel >>>>>>>>>> acrobatics.

    See above homie g

    lololololgeneralization

    As I said above, point me to bands that do this. You're the one making the point, the burden of proof's on you.

    What is raw for me?

    Burzum - Filosofem (only that one, the earlier ones really aren't raw in the slightest)
    Ildjarn - Forest Poetry
    Deathspell Omega - Si Monvmentvm Reqvires, Circvmspice
    Mayhem - Live in Leipzig

    They sound abrasive as fuck, and it sounds like a buzzsaw on the ears. Really adds to the harsh atmosphere of the songs... it gives a blatant disregard for the listener, which I enjoy. Makes the listener work for their musical experience. (inb4 butt you pretentious asshole :V)

    Well I don't really know what else to tell you, that's just how it is man. The genre has musical aims of its own, it's not like death metal or thrash in the slightest. I'd go so far as to call it a polar opposite.

    If you are looking for the genre to always have ultra-precise playing, and water itself down with a cleaner sound, you're really missing the point. *shrug*

    That's fine, that you don't like it. As I've shown though, you're expecting rawer BM to be something its not here. So you really can't call it "shit".

    I've heard Phagist's and Bodom's demos. They really don't sound like shit at all tbh, they're pretty tame.

    And that's fine, that the playing is decent... DM is a genre that really benefits from precise playing. With BM on the other hand, it really does not fucking matter. The focus in BM is not on the compositions themselves, or on ALL ACROBATICS ALL THE TIME :V, but on atmosphere my friend, something DM and thrash lacks. And the harsher sounds only add to that fucking hateful, cold atmosphere.

    Meh. Call me cold, but I don't. :/

    The artists have put work into art to be enjoyed, I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to separately enjoy the music.
     
  12. Brutal Hate

    Brutal Hate Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Suomi Finland Perkele!
    People always have stereotypes and those aren't always negative. But you also had stereotype of BM people as animal slaughters and bad artists. Which I consider ridiculous because it's not true.


    That's the way it is. BM was never even meant for the masses.
     
  13. eveningninja

    eveningninja Skull Kid

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,968
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Clock Town Behavior: Pretty good -Syuri
    hay guise, were the hate crew we stand and we wont fall
     
  14. grey knight

    grey knight Etheraven

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Siikajoki
    Hate is for the weak...
     
  15. children of COB

    children of COB Deadnight Drinker

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2006
    Messages:
    7,463
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Averno
    You think sloopiness and worse sound than what you could get doesn't make the music worse or less enjoyable and that beliefs don't matter.

    I like tight playing, nice sound and don't want assholes playing the music.

    We're not going to agree, so I'd say it's better to leave it. I supose tastes are tastes.

    I think I've said like a million times that I'm not talking about BM in general, I'm talking about underground BM, local bands who don't look for what The Butt would call a rawer sound, but just crank the amp to the worse they can get. The real/serious/a bit more experienced BM bands are another worl. I don't like them, yeah, but I won't say they're shit. I will say that though about their beliefs, because the vast majority of BM world is into the pig/animals slaughter thing and all the dumb satanism.
     
  16. Brutal Hate

    Brutal Hate Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Suomi Finland Perkele!
    Typical response when you can't answer to the The Butt's questions.
     
  17. (__Joonas__)

    (__Joonas__) † Followed the Reaper †

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    169
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Finland
    Well, if you ask me, there's no fucking way Carcass is better than COB. :heh: It all depends what kind of music you've listened before.
     
  18. DHG

    DHG Sverd's successor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Arcturus
    Heartwork is such a boring album. Necroticism is waaayyy better.
     
  19. vitorias123

    vitorias123 Faceless

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    8,599
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Nepal
    I listened to COB mostly :lol: Heartwork blow me away when i heard it, but then again i was only 13:lol:
    I agree that Necroticism is way better than Heartwork,but its better to compare COB with Heartwok
     
  20. grey knight

    grey knight Etheraven

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    990
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Siikajoki
    Btw. CoB people could check out Cradle of Filth, I think the biggest difference is that Dani uses lot more makeup than Alexi...and reaper is replaced with a black goddes thing.
     

Share This Page