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Heathen Pride, Heathen Honour, Heathen victory!

Discussion in 'Amon Amarth' started by Heathen_Pride, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. Joshnir

    Joshnir Member

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    Yeah I know, try to tell that to a christian though. haha. Every christian has a different view about what Christianity is and they all think they're right and all still call themselves Christians. Makes no sense. If I had a religion it would be some type of Norse Paganism, I would even think some of the stories logically have a better chance of being true considering they're older than the a lot of other religions and Christianity stole a lot of stuff from it. And of course I believe in fighting for my home and taking care of my family, I think that the Heathen teachings are wonderful. I studied Asatru for a long time and have read the Havamal quite a bit. Doesn't mean that Odin and Freya are real though. I also agree about a lot of AA fans buying Mjollnir necklaces and drinking horns and thinking they're vikings. When I was into Norse mythology and history 10-15 years ago because of my heritage everyone just thought I was a weird nerd, now everyone just assumes I'm into it because of Amon Amarth. Pretty lame.
     
  2. Krigloch the Furious

    Krigloch the Furious Pants full of poo

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    I like Germanic stuffs just because of AA. are there any other reasons?
     
  3. amon666

    amon666 Member

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    you reminded me of this song
    great song!
     
    #63 amon666, Jun 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015
  4. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 New Metal Member

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    I'm going to try to say my piece but I'm going to try to do it very objectively, so here goes. I'll only start by saying I'm not a Christian, and I do not believe in some of the points I make, but I'm merely trying to play devils advocate and get people to look at the topics without confusing what "truth" and "opinion".

    On blanket statements: About all religion being dumb, I don't necessarily get where this hate is coming from. To all those who will say: "I believe in Science," honestly, stop talking. You're actually giving Science a bad name. Science has yet to prove against the existence of any one God/Goddess, nor has it proved the existence of any one God/Goddess. There are many religions out there that openly believe in what Science has proved. An example: A heathen in my area subscribes to the Big Bang Theory and Evolution (although I'm not sure you can "subscribe" to evolution anymore, you can just realize it's a fact or be ignorant). He also believes in the Norse gods. He is well aware that in Norse lore, the universe was created when Fire and Ice collided, but he sees it as a metaphor, not necessarily a fact. Lastly for this subject, I'll just put it out there that blanket statements often make you look like a fool. Seriously, be informed before you speak, and know when you are speaking of your opinion and state it as such (I.E. "All religion is dumb," translates to: "I THINK all religion is dumb").

    On the Afterlife: You also say that belief in any sort of afterlife is a product of the fear of death. I'll use the Heathen friend I mentioned before, his idea is that there is Valhalla/Hel, etc, but he also thinks it's highly possible that when he dies he will simply die. I'll pull us back to a "Scientific" argument here, because that will probably interest you more. Science recognizes that the brain and the mind are two separate objects. The brain is an organ that tells your body what to do. It assigns jobs to cells, tells you your body needs food, tells you when you have to go to the bathroom, etc. The mind, on the other hand, is something that is still elusive to Science. Science says that the mind is what thinks, and we do not know where it is located within our bodies, what it is, whether it is matter or not. We simply know it exists. Is it not possible, that after death the mind (if it is truly not a physical part of the body - which science still hasn't reached a verdict on) could leave the body and travel on to different things.

    For more on that subject, I encourage people to read about Astral projection and Erthical (yes eRthical) projection, along with most meditation in general.

    On Christianity: Yes, Christianity has done bad things in the past. But if the whole world is an eye for an eye, then we simply have a blind world. I'm not saying people should, as Christians say, "turn the other cheek", I'm saying we should realize that not every Christian is out there to convert you. It seems many people here forget that not every religion has ten undeniably truths to it, like Christianity in this case (speaking of the ten commandments). In Christianity, these ten commandments lay out what is "good" and what is "evil" or not good, or whatever you wish to call it. In many left hand path religions, there are no "set rules" like the ten commandments. In these religions, individuals are encouraged to look at their situation objectively and make a decision based on the circumstances. Under "A" set of circumstances, one may choose a different method of action than under the "B" circumstances.

    On the topic of Jesus and the bible: Sure, he may have existed. Sure, he probably did great things. Did he perform miracles? Probably not. What people have to realize that the bible was not written until roughly two to three hundred years after his death, and has been "misinterpreted" throughout time in order to promote hatred of other religions (such as the Neo-Pagen movement called Wicca). So basically, there was at least two hundred year long game of telephone. It started with the truth, then two hundred (or more) years later, we basically have the bible. Again, I do know Christians who recognize this, and I know ones who've spat at me and called me a liar because of this.

    On differences: I think a lot of people seem to think that when someone is "christian" they are instantly good/evil. Some Christians (I know a few) are actually really nice people, and don't ever preach or discriminate. Quite a few of these people make up some of the most open minded people I know. Then there are people who take the bible and LIVE it. They begin to use the bible as an excuse for their wrong doings, and fall back on an attitude of "Well, God will forgive me because I'm trying to save you! He won't forgive you because you're wrong!" The way I try to see it is simply this; if one person uses religion to better himself/herself, then great. If that religions gives X person guidance, then great. If a person does not need religion, or more specifically a right hand path religion, to tell them what is right and what is wrong, then great. When someone takes the ideas or symbols of a religion, bends their meaning in order to fit there own personal hate-filled agenda, then that is bad.

    @ Resonator: Metaphysics is simply what you make of it. It is philosophy. Each persons idea of metaphysics is different, there is no real "fact" on the subject, nor do you know any fact of what is and what is not, you simply know what your idea is. I encourage you to read my first paragraph, specifically the section on stating your opinions as such.

    I encourage all of you to think about one thing: As is said in Dogma, it is better to have ideas than beliefs, because ideas are not necessarily true and are up for debate, whilst beliefs are something taken out of blind faith.
     
  5. TheBear

    TheBear New Metal Member

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    Joshnir. I understand. I was called a DnD Nerd for being Pagan and told I need to quit worshiping DnD Gods. I worked in a Prison where over and over they pushed the idea that if you were not worth a damn unless you were full blooded white and Christian. I even got written up for an action that stemmed from My pagan warrior beliefs. A few inmates had stuffed toothpicks in a lock and started beating up the yard officers. Our Special Ops team was standing at the gate watching the yard officers getting beaten, waiting on someone to bring bolt cutters. I managed to get myself over the fence and started swinging my maglite at inmates. After the incident was done, the captain was yelling at me about how my actions were stupid and how I could have died. I asked him why he thought fighting for and dying for brothers in uniform was stupid. He started stammering and could not answer. I went on to inform him that me, my family, or my gods have no problem with death in battle. I know what will happen to me when I die, and I am ok with that. I was sent to counseling because I was "obviously" suicidal.

    Well said Dusty. Fire and Ice even as a Metaphor is an awesome metaphor as an explanation for the big bang. 2 things that did not mix well together and caused and explosion. It works. 40,000 years ago when Heathenry started it was probably the best way to explain that concept.

    As far as Evolution, we have some interesting stories that embrace evolution. The gods blessed a group of people. That is how a pagan says evolution LOL. Look at the Jotunblud people, they were head and shoulders taller than other men and had denser muscles and bones. Look at Berzerkers they had enhanced muscle density and hypertrichosis.

    I had a Christian try and tell me what my beliefs were. Then said all Pagans were cocksucking homosexuals who did not believe in Jesus. I told him I have never sucked cock and I believe in Jesus, I just do not think he was the person that Christians claim he was and I think it is funny that an Irish guy is calling himself a Christian. He wanted to know why. I told him it says in the book of Mark that Jesus in his own words saying that you can not be Christian unless your Jewish, and that he only came to save the Jews. He called me a liar, so I showed him. He accused me of having a special bible printed up.
     
  6. Dusty201087

    Dusty201087 New Metal Member

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    Yes, unfortunately there are idiots in all religions who simply think they're right and everyone else is wrong :rolleyes: these are the people who bring a bad name to all religion. And I love quoting the bible when I'm talking to Christians, it seems like there's a very high percentage of them in my area that haven't even read the bible, so it's quite a system shock to them when someone like me can pull direct quotes from it :lol:

    But thank you for the compliment, and I am sorry for you being made fun of and classed as "suicidal". Many people just don't understand, so instead of putting in a few hours worth of reading to get at least a decent grasp on what other people belief, they make assumptions the moment they hear "Pagan", "Asatru", or "LeVey Satanist".
     
  7. The Slopes Of Death

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    Well I am a non-believer in any supernatural stuff. I thought Norse mythology was cool and as a result discovered Amon Amarth. I do think paganism is cool as a symbol of the way things were before Christianity came and ruined them. I dislike Christianity, but I like paganism. I don't believe in either.
     
  8. TheBear

    TheBear New Metal Member

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    Taking out the Mystical stuff and the Preternatural things, Asatru still has teachings that are worth having.

    Love and take care of your Family.
    Fight, Bleed, Kill, and Die for your Home.

    Those are 2 primary Asatru Beliefs that I am ok with.
     
  9. TheBear

    TheBear New Metal Member

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    There is a guy over on youtube saying that Amon Amarth are Christians. His name is evergrey06
     
  10. amon666

    amon666 Member

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    Bullshit! they are atheist!

    Fred

    http://www.metalist.co.il/InterviewPrivate.asp?id=196&lang=eng

    Johan
    http://thephoenix.com/Boston/Music/69790-It-takes-a-pillage/?rel=inf

    Johan again
    http://club.kingsnake.com/index.php?/archives/278-Interview-Johan-Hegg-of-Amon-Amarth.html
     
  11. TheBear

    TheBear New Metal Member

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    I know they are not Christians.

    They retell the stories of our Ancestors. That is important.

    They talk about Brotherhood and Family. That is important.

    They talk about fighting for your home and your people. That is important.

    Besides I look at the old Gods and Paganism like this. Picture yourself a Freshman in Highschool. Your Older Brother just Graduated and has every Football record. You go into Highschool and they expect Great things of you. You have a lot to live up to. I know a lot of Asatru who see things like this, I know a lot of Atheist who are ok with this and to them it makes more sense than an actual God.

    Ever wonder why a lot of Asatru refer to the Gods as the Elder Brothers?
     
  12. NewWorld

    NewWorld Member

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    Maybe its just from being raised in a non-religious household, but seems to me that Jesus isnt actually presented as the christian "god" per say......this mildly pisses me off when I see stuff like people (e.g. professed heathens/whatever) bashing christians who discriminate based on misconceptions then say something about Jesus being god. I saw someone do this earlier in the thread but I'll be damned if I'm gonna go read through it all again just to show you again.

    In any case I think the values taught by most paganish type religions are "righter" than a lot of others (say christianity). I wear a mjolnir because of this, but I can't really consider myself to be a "real" pagan or asatru or what have you... It's more of a symbol of support for what my ancestors believed. I think that the world would probably be a better place if christianity had not reigned, but you can't ignore the fact that christianity has done a few good things for us. A lot of scientific advancements that allow us to live our lives the way we do were discovered by christians. I guess I'm not firmly in the anti religion or pro religion camps, but more in the middle, where I can accept different ideas and base my concepts of right and wrong on a wider base than someone who is firmly religious.....from ANY religion.

    And to the prison guy: your attitude is exactly what I think should be respected, even if for X reason someone can't subscribe to it.
     
  13. TheBear

    TheBear New Metal Member

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    I do have to admit that after the Christians forced people into submission and while they were forcing people. Great Technology was created. America would not have happened the same way without Christianity. I have to admit that as well.

    One of the Big Debates in the Pagan Community is the off and on fight between Old World Pagans and Neo-Pagans. I do not like Neo-Pagans either. I think they are the mentally slow crack babies of hippies.

    As Pagans in General we need to embrace those old beliefs. Fight for your home and take care of your family. Asatru are big fans of those.
     
  14. TheBear

    TheBear New Metal Member

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    Jesus is and should be treated like a Religious Leader, like a Godhi or a Druid, not like a God. No where in the bible does he actually say he is a God or the Son of God. In fact, the Jewish Communities actually have records of him being a Rabbi and married and having children.

    However, Christians do run around claiming he is a God. That is their stupidity and I think New world is right, we do not have to play part in their ignorance.

    He is a Rabbi. Show respect for that. We can still hate the stupid people and still recognize that he is a Religious Leader. Even if He is Usengardth.
     
  15. waif

    waif Member

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    Uh-huh. Because nothing bad happened outside of Europe during that period.
    It's interesting that you actually think there are accurate records of an event that occurred almost 2000 years ago at a time when almost no one could read or right.
    It's also interesting that you think there were Christians before the death of Christ. Yes, Jesus had disciples, but they were not what you'd call a Christian today, since a lot of stuff was fabricated after his death.
    Uh...40,000? If you define "heathenry" as anything pre-christian, than yes. But that's pretty fucking stupid since we have no idea what was happening beyond 7,000 years ago (4000 BC) aside from some cave drawings.
    Yup, unlike that lazy Christian work ethic where they just sit around all fucking day abandoning their children.
    Yeah, if Christians want people to believe in Jesus they should have started existing 38,000 years earlier. Good call.
    Uh-huh. Pre-Christian Scandinavia was a perfect society in which no-one ever fought or lied or murdered or was cowardly or hypocritical or fucked children. Damn fucking straight.
    You're a fucking idiot. Go dance with a bear.

    I'm trying to remember how I disrespected heathen beliefs. I'm pretty sure I simply evaluated them logically and found that they were not in fact inherently superior to Christian beliefs and that ancestor worship was fucking worthless.

    Yeah, here's the thing: that's not actually true. So you're gonna have to shut the fuck up and learn something.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Religion
    Hitler viewed religion as a tool. There was no place for it in his perfect society, but because it was established among Germans he simply used it to do what he wanted. Pagan beliefs were encouraged among many Nords in order to encourage them to fight with the strong, manly Aryan army.

    Point to one fucking thing. 11 million people died in concentration camps and the total casualties of WWII are estimated above 20 million. If you'll just point me to the 20 million people who were brutally murdered in the name of Christ oh right, they weren't. Yes, many pagans were burned or hung or shanked. Many. I doubt the numbers are in the hundreds of thousands. As for the Crusades, there simply were not all that many people in the world at that time. Less than a billion. A couple million people died in the crusades, tops. People love to say "more people died for Jesus than Hitler." I used to say that too. Then one day I actually thought about it and realized, no they fucking did it. If you prefer qualification over quantification, I'm pretty sure Mengele beats the Inquisition.

    Yeah, the thing that bothers me the most about Christianity is that most of them have no fucking clue what they believe. That's one of the things I respect most about Martin Luther, but America is mostly protestant and they still don't know what they're doing.

    Yeah, Christians would never care for their families or defend their homes. You do realize that these are the principle tennents of civilization. Care for and defend your society. There is no society on earth that does not embrace these.

    That's probably not true, and one more reason to dislike the Church. The Scientific revolution occurred despite Christianity. It's capitalism that was key. For example, Galileo was placed under house arrest by the Church. Basically, Christianity itself distinctly hindered Scientific progress. I think if the Roman empire had not overextended and collapsed we would all be speaking Latin and driving flying cars with our minds by now.
     
  16. TheBear

    TheBear New Metal Member

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    Your funny why dont you come dance with a Bear. I got a fight ring we can fight in, but then again you do not know how to do anything accept run your mouth on the internet.

    When you become a Man I am in Leavenworth, Kansas.
     
  17. amon666

    amon666 Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  18. Shadow77

    Shadow77 Member

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    And now here comes the reason I despise any sort of religion....discussion always has to turn to insults and physical confrontation.
     
  19. NewWorld

    NewWorld Member

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    OK WeAreInFlames, this one's for you: after refuting the notion that there are accurate records from a long time ago, you ask for someone to point out the 20 million or whatever number killed in the name of christianity. Seems kind of a pointless question unless you aren't open to discussion anyways in which case I don't know why you're posting here.

    Also, I doubt if this comparison could be made even if there were semi accurate records. Who knows how many people were buried in woods so to speak and were never officially acknowledged? This goes for both conflicts, WWII and christianity vs non-christians.

    Another point is that you can't really compare an event like say the crusades to WWII because there are more factors involved than just how many died. If you look at things as a proportion of world population affected than it's a different picture than if you just take into account the gross number of casualties.

    What we really need to do is acknowledge the past and move on, not remain fixated on what happened however many years ago. Arguments about which religion is better end in the same place as philosophy classes: you don't really know what you learned :p
     
  20. Fenrisúlfr

    Fenrisúlfr ὁ δύσκος λύκος

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    Nor would you should I accede. Ask the others here why. :heh:
     

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