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high gain tone quest - input needed

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by miche, Apr 16, 2011.

  1. miche

    miche Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I have been struggling with reamping for quite some time now, unable to get the tone I wanted with high gain amps. I feel like I need some exterior point of view to try to unblock what is preventing me from reaching my dream tone (or something that moves towards it). I would be very grateful for your diagnostic.

    Here is the gear:

    - Schecter with 707
    - signal is split with a radial jx2
    - DI tone is sent to an API 512c
    - the audio interface is a motu 24io
    - the peak point of the recorded DI is ~-4.5db

    That's for the DI recording. Now the signal is sent through:
    - black reamp box: volume set to max
    - maxon od-9, every knob at 12:00
    - peavey 6505 with the settings:
    [] rythm channel
    [] pre: 4
    [] bass: 6.5
    [] mid: 1.25
    [] high: 4.5
    [] postgain: 1.5
    [] reso: 7
    [] presence: 8
    - mesa os slanted
    - single sm57: classic position pointing at the dustcap/cone junction, very slightly off axis (the head looks inside the speaker), standing on the quiet right part of the bottom right speaker at ~0.75'' from the grill (grill was removed, but it should be at this distance if it was still there).

    Here is a improvised riff, with two guitars:
    _reampPeaveyMesa_01.mp3 - 0.77MB

    I feel like my tone has many fizz / resonating frequencies / harshness / no headroom / too dark. The bass frequencies are muddy, the 1k mids are not there, the 3k – 6k is very harsh with loads of fizzes and resonating frequencies. The highs are deafened, the tone is not bright. It sounds far away.

    According to you guys, what is it I do wrong? Any ideas, hints, feelings?

    What may be wrong? Mic placement? Room? Amp settings? Cables? Any gear? Electric current?

    I need foreign and objective ears.

    Again, I would be very grateful for any help.

    Thanks in advance!






    EDIT - NEW SAMPLES POSTED

    Here are new samples with a few settings / placement changes that were posted below.

    - maxon drive lowered to 0, peavey mids set to 2.5 and mic moved for like 3 millimeters. no treatment at all:
    _reampPeaveyMesa_02.mp3 - 0.77MB

    - same guitars but with bass and drums. No treatment on the guitars or on the master buss besides a gclip:
    _reampPeaveyMesa_02_fullmix.mp3 - 0.76MB
     
  2. Maybelater

    Maybelater Member

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    I'm far from a recording guru but I feel you should judge the tone in a mix. You would be surprised what sounds good when everything starts to blend together. JMHO
     
  3. Jormyn

    Jormyn Member

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    That tone doesn't sound bad to me. A small cut around 600 and a small boost around 1k would probably give it a little more balls, but I'd be quite happy with it.
     
  4. HvO

    HvO Member

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    Drive too?? You should test it without Drive by the OD-9.
    I think the fizz will be gone.
     
  5. ttrentt

    ttrentt Member

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    I bet would sound good in a mix.
     
  6. miche

    miche Member

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    Thank you very much for taking the time to check my sample and giving me your impressions.

    @Maybelater & ttrentt: you are right, it is always good to judge a tone in a mix as well. That's where your guitars are going to end, so most definitely: it is a good idea to listen to them with the rest of the instruments as well. I quickly programmed / recorded drums and bass lines. But still, I feel like it won't be enough. I really would like to listen to the guitars by themselves and find them exciting.

    @: Jormyn interesting, that's not exactly where I would have cut (lower). I would actually have boosted that 600 area, I fill it quite dug in there. I played with your recommendation for a bit and felt I had to change something on the amp settings since the current EQ balance was wrong.

    @HvO: I may be using the word "fizz" wrong. For me, it is the horrible series of hisses that kill my ears between approximatively 5k and 6k. There are always a few (resonating? that's how they are called?) frequencies that I want to notch in there. Can you hear those? They make the tone very aggressive and unpleasant. But if you remove them, you kill the sound. It goes too dark.

    I lowered the drive to 0 as you suggested, it doesn't really help in this area. But you are right, the tone may be a little more "breathing" like that.

    ---

    I moved the mic, so the position differs very slightly from the first post (less than 5mm). Still, my usual problems are still audible: sound is harsh, hisses between 4k and 6.5k, lacking low mids and muddy low end, lacking >6.5k brightness.

    Adding some mids to the peavey head made the sound closer and fuller, so I set it to 2.5. The current settings are now:

    - maxon od-9
    [] drive: 0
    [] tone: 12 o' clock
    [] level: 12 o' clock

    - peavey 6505:
    [] rythm channel
    [] pre: 4
    [] bass: 6.5
    [] mid: 2.5
    [] high: 4.5
    [] postgain: 1.5
    [] reso: 7
    [] presence: 8

    Here are the two guitares by themselves, no post-prcessing:
    _reampPeaveyMesa_02.mp3 - 0.77MB

    Here they are "in the mix": I quickly added some drums and bass. The guitars are not processed at all and there is nothing in the mastering chain besides a gclip:
    _reampPeaveyMesa_02_fullmix.mp3 - 0.76MB

    Again, has anyone a hit on how to improve the guitar take? I am doing something obviously wrong to any of you?
     
  7. TheWinterSnow

    TheWinterSnow Den Mørke Natt

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    The Only thing you really have left to do is to hone in your mixing skills. Your unprocessed guitars are a great starting point, my taste would be to increase that level knob all the way up or increasing the pre-gain, both methods will have a slightly different sound and its all preference, but I feel that the tone could use a little bit more saturation on the palm mutes.

    This is echoed a lot around here so remember this: Tone comes from the hands, if the tone sounds sloppy, 99.9% of the time you played sloppy, and I could hear that in the mix. You have to articulate and play more dynamically in order to get the tone to stand out.

    Other than that, like I said before, you have good sources, its just time for you to begin the nightmare of mixing.
     

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