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Homophobia

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by monoxide_child, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    Even if you do find that statement to be unbelievable, presumptious or whatever, it is still valid and one you conveniently ignored.

    On to the next point - If you are too dense to realize that by desiring to shun homosexual people you're preaching everything that freedom countries stand against, then I can't help you. It is pretty fuckin' funny that on this day and age you got the balls to say that heterosexual couples have more right to do whatever the fuck they want than homosexual couples.

    Quite frankly, if you do have decent points to make i'd suggest you do so, if not then cut the bullshit. You don't know me and just because you believe you're older and more experienced than me doesn't automatically make you any more right than I am. Use logic and brain power instead of such a bullshit cop-out.

    So am I not entitled to say you're behaving like a bigot when you openly state that it is perfectly normal for heterosexual couples to french kiss in public and homosexual couples should do it behind closed doors? Sorry, I guess I skipped english class when I went to college :rolleyes:

    Alright, so let me cut the bullshit. Basically you believe that homosexual people should stay indoors and do the same that heterosexual couples do out on the open? way to discriminate someone.
     
  2. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    Pin-point exactly where I attacked you, my points were directed at Bloodsword.

    It is natural, stop spewing the same ignorant and tired bullshit. Homosexual behavior happens in animals, so therefore it is a natural behavior. Whether you or I agree with such behavior does not make it any less natural.

    Same logic that's used by authoritarian governments. I'd love to see you what kind of bullshit would you pull in an alternate reality where you were the minority.

    Your last statement pretty much sums up how intelligent and thoughtful you are, so I digress.
     
  3. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    flipping out ? I will admit Im getting ready to really fucking flip out and get this thread closed quicker than shit
    Dont father me ? WHAT THE FUCK ??? How in the hell was saying this something "thats not going to fly"... "Either you get the fact that their are natural reactions to unnatural occurances or you dont, pretty simple stuff." What the fuck is so hard to get about that ? Please do tell... then you still hadnt had enough of your immature fucking rage and had to have another go at the same statement with this
    Ya know, what does experience have to do with anythings.... right ? and am I wrong or did you just say I have no brains or common sense ? I'll let the far fetched and incorrect go as if there is something incorrect about saying "Either you get the fact that their are natural reactions to unnatural occurances or you dont, pretty simple stuff." Fuck you that was the most reasonable statement I could possible make about why most people react to open displays of homosex as they do. Its really fucking simple shit dude
    Try harder next time... WHAT THE FUCK... whos the one that made the rediculous comment "dont father me"... what... all for saying this "It all just requires looking at things in their entirity, with a sound mind that is clear of any outside influences and their distractions. One should not question others for their answers but find them on their own, a harder process than the easy cop out of adapting the latest rage in pop culture social thinking. These are but trends that always fail to accomplish their goals of erasing the history of mankind."

    You have a serious comprehension problem if you interpret what I say as some kind of challenge you need to make these stupid snide remarks too. Incidently through all these posts of yours you offered nothing but homosex occurs in animals, which is not entirely true but one would need to be an animal person to truely understand all of it. Most just take a few pieces of the presentation and decide "yeah, animals are gay too" where the truth if all is read and understood it is more like the situation in jails and rape, its all about dominance and control with animals not free love and sex.

    continuing my list:
    You are unable to communicate decently with people that dont agree with your point of view. You have some axe to grind, you are pissed off about something and want to take it out on someone for expressing themselves. It is clear to even the "ignorant" "low intellegence" "unthoughtfull" "no brains or common sense" person that I am, you got screwed on your college ed pup, comprehension excapes you.

    Now do I have to worry about this ficticous alternate reality ? What would this be one where all but a few people were gay ? How do you know Im not a minority in my own right? Where do you get off calling me a bullshit puller ?.... bullshit puller

    Yes digress you do. So whats up with this "last statement" you.. the one that says I offered up nothing... whats up that you side stepped it in the grandest of Gene Kelly style ?

    If you want to indulge in conversation with others I would suggest you drop the shit fucking attitude and learn how to communicate as well as comprehend.

    Im with Bloodsword 100% with this one, you are flying off the wall like a fucking wack job, insulting and making accusations. Grow the fuck up and express yourself not attack the person who wrote the post you are responding too. That is what is called personal attacks. I gave you plenty of time before I returned the favor that you have been instigating post after post after post.

    You will note in the first thread I made regarding this that it was a bad topic because some cant accept the position of others and alas you arrived all full of anger and insults. I was down this road with you just a few weeks ago and you did the same exact thing, ran around proclaiming victory yet never applying anything... as if there was a battle in the first place.
     
  4. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    Reasonable statement? What the fuck is so reasonable about that anyway? So it's now natural to fuckin' shun people for a behavior that for YOU seems unreasonable or unnaturnal? get the fuck out.

    Where the fuck did you get all this shit anyway? It is entirely true that homosexual behavior happens in animals and the fact of the matter is it happens in species that are pretty closely related to us humans, and those are primates. Get your fuckin' shit straight before talking out of your ass.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals#Bonobo_and_other_apes

    Homosexuality in nature = Homosexuality being natural

    Now, if you don't understand this then i'm of no use for you.

    I'm perfectly fine with people disagreeing with my points of view, but there's a line that I don't cross and that is people that discriminate other people for being what they are. Moreover, problem here is it seems that your comprehension level does not seem to grasp this simple concept.

    Proclaiming victory? wtf? :lol: You think I give two shits about winning a fuckin' argument against you on the internet? get off your high horse :rolleyes:
     
  5. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Still being an arrogant idiot I see.

    Better read more about your primates like I said before when I brought it up. They are about the only animal with the behavior to that extent and its one sub species. Most important is the reasons for such social structure IF you can keep your head clear enough to obsorb the entire artical. Same such subspecies is also responsible for incest and playing with the children... SO ? Thats right, I already mentioned that... did you respond ? Then theres the picking and eating of each others bugs... wonder how that would fly in your eatery of choice ? Should people that dont eat each others bugs not be put off if a group that did, showed up and sat at the table beside them ?

    Speaking of eaterys, the question asked here that all were responding too was why some people have been put off by homosex public behavior... I answered that.... NO WHERE DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT SHUNING ! I only recall saying something about reasonable behavior in public. Do you have a problem with this ? If so too bad... lad !

    That applies to your discriminating delimmas as well. Gee I wonder if those primates welcome others into their territory with open arms ?

    But alas you still wont get it and anybody that opposes you will be called names and your only edge will be your attempts at burdoning one with guilt. As I said it deflects off me, your way shallow, Im deep, I understand why all this happens and accept it. None of my understanding will stop me from getting the creeps and feeling that some behavior is unnecessary in public. I feel this way about more than just homosex acts.

    So yeah, how about addressing that particular paragraph you had a problem with, you have been asked twice now.
     
  6. Ocelot2010

    Ocelot2010 Burger King Diamond

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    Homo actually means "the same"
     
  7. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    If you did bother reading in its entirety you'd notice that the article says this type of behavior has been observed in about 1500 species of animals. Some of them include primates, lions, elephants, dragonflies and a heck of a lot more.

    Your quite farfetched example of people eating each others bugs does not prove nothing. Human's have transcended that primal state of animals and obviously do not carry on such idiosyncrasy. However, if this did happen, although strange that it would be, it would be perfectly natural because it's derived from our most primal state (not to mention certain bugs are a culinary delicacy in some countries).

    I admit I did fuck up with the shuning comment, as Bloodsword is the one that seems to be more strict about this. However, what do you call reasonable behavior? As it's been said before, some believe straight people deserve some kind of rights to express themselves while gay people shouldn't.

    I'm not interested in making you feel guilty in any way whatsoever. The point was simply that even if one may get the creeps (hey, I get them too) that does not mean that we should get in their way of expressing or behaving, point that Bloodsword does not seem to get.
     
  8. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    If you had of read everything that I said you would have comprehended and respected this
    As for it claiming there are 1500 species that engage in homosex I will only muse. The gay lobby will do anything to justify their cause. I on the other hand know that animals do not engage in sex as a pass time, it has but one function and that is reproduction and only during specific periods. Any of the other posturing that occurs within the animal kingdom is as I said above and has nothing to do with "sex" or lifetime sex mates.

    The homosex communtity simply has to deal with the fact that open acts of their affliction repulse many if not most of the well grounded NORMAL reproducing population and that there are those that will not tolerate such displays and those that will be put off and turned away. That is their burdon to bare for what went wrong during their early development in the womb. We all have sacrifices of some sort, we all have burdons we have to bare, this is one of theirs. If it was natural mammals would be unisex for reproduction purposes and normal people (who are an extremely high percentage) would not be made sick to their stomachs about the thought of sex with their own kind. Thus the only purpose of my bug eating people sitting in a restaruant scenerio, that would be a totally sick and repulsive act few would tolerate and there is no difference what so ever.

    So again I ask you why you keep sidestepping that paragraph you had a problem with earlier ?
     
  9. BloodSword

    BloodSword Member

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    I'm going to reference a book, and most will know what this is. Let it be known, that most if not all on this forum, will want me to fall on my "bloodsword" burn me alive on a funeral pyre, or what ever sick things could be done. I do not care, so have at it. I am hoping these quotes will help others to view things in a different perspective. First, Proverbs 18:2-" A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions." Isaiah 59:4 "No one calls for justice, no one pleads his case with integrity. They rely on empty arguments and speak lies, they conceive trouble and give birth to evil." 1 Corinthians 2:14--"The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the spirit of God, they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." 2 Timothy 2:23--"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels." Lastly, Proverbs 26:4--"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself." I believe all of us, especially me, in light of my responses, can benefit from these words. In the case of this thread, if these words were applicable, there might not be so much bitterness and derision. Before you laugh and ridicule, just give these words some thought.
     
  10. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    I admit I did not read everything on this thread, so me side-stepping your paragraph was an act out of ignorance. I did not read that paragraph until now.

    Laugh all you want, but it still does not make it any less true. This has nothing to do with gay lobby willing to do anything to justify their cause, these are real scientific studies. Check the bottom of the page if you want to see the references and everything related to these studies.

    Another point that i'd like to bring - Even if you do believe that animals only have sex to reproduce, i'd like to point out to you that certain species of primates attack the female if she intervenes right after the male had a sexual encounter with another male, which would bring your whole theory to the ground. If you do not believe what i'm telling you i'd suggest you read it up.

    As I said in my last paragraph, saying homosexual behavior with animals is about dominance and control is incorrect. Whether you want to realize this or admit it I don't care. Both subjects engage in such acts in a consenting manner, which would not indicate any act of dominance or control from one of the parts.

    To end my piece, it is quite obvious that we'll not reach any sort of consensus with this discussion so we're better off not even talking. You're not open to view things with a different scope, concede or refute what's being said to you, so it would be pointless to continue.
     
  11. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I would suggest you read further about those animals. Its written right in there that it stems from social structure. I have read them long ago, a few times. I also know much about animal socialization, what and why things take place. Most of the other species are rare incidences of things happening in the heat and termoil of the breeding season, I'd willingly bet there is actually no consumated sex, just posturing, a term I'd also bet you know nothing of. I have raised many dogs in packs and worked farms. I have seen bulls and cows riding each other, it was some sort of act, no "sex" was had, it a form of posturing, absolutely nothing like what goes on during the breeding season. I've had my dogs lick and sniff each other... sorry its not sex. They also stick their noses in the crotch of anyone that comes around, sorry its not sex. Its common for the dominate female or male of most species to stand up on a subbordinants back. Its common for subordinants members to suck up to dominantes by sniffing and attempting to clean them, which goes over badly. All during this behavior no "sex" is had. Its got nothing to do with sex whatsoever. I have a few great long term friends and we great each other with real hugs... no sex was had. People who want to ride that all animals are gay routine should learn something about animal social behavior and what it all means. To begin with its hysterical to think some believe animals have what we call sex in the first place. They have one thing on their mind, which is actually an instinct, not a thought and that is to reproduce when all the signals are present in the air.
     
  12. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    So now mounting, penetration, masturbation and thrusting is not sexual behavior :rolleyes:. I did read the article entirely and the funny thing is that you only noticed the part were it talks about dominance and it's relation to prison behaviors, but you didn't seem to notice that it also talks about how some male species act sexually and even bond for the rest of their life, as if they were a couple. TBH the only one that seems not to have done his homework is you.

    You know what they say about assuming, right? shit like this just makes you look dumb, if anything.

    That is all.
     
  13. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Now are you talking about your incestous, pedifile monkeys again (do you obsorb all the implications) or are you talking about these "1500" other species ? I did see you used the word "act" so you have half the idea anyhow, you just need more time. You should also spend some time learning about hormones, reproduction process, courtship/attracting mates, why females and males are as they are, and what goes wrong in the womb during early development of the fetus. We try to be passive about these things, accept most all for the sake of being tolerant and decent but at the end, it is what it is.... an abnormality, a hormonal misfire and this is why so many people have the natural reaction as they do. Hate me all you want but shooting the messenger does not change reality.
     
  14. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    Don't tell me what I need to know, remember the assuming part? I did my time already and whatever i'm learning right now I do so to keep myself from going stale. Btw, you believe i'm gonna waste my time hating you? :rolleyes: It takes a hell lot for me to hate someone and believe me, someone on the internet isn't going to make the cut.


    Now on to your questions. All the answers you're seeking are right there, if you did bother reading the article entirely you wouldn't be asking them right now. I'm not even talking about primates, one of the species I was talking about is the Bison, species where you can find penetration from one male to the other. Giraffe's as well practice homosexual activities and climax during during the aforementioned behavior.

    I won't even going to dignify your last comment about such behavior being an abnormality. You're a assuming you're way out of things and try to explain things that you don't have the first fucking clue about, even scientists are trying to explain how homosexual behavior happens to grow (some believe it's due to genes, not problems during the birth process :rolleyes: ) and yet you go out on a limb and make fallacious claims for which you have no basis.
     
  15. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    what i meant was
    in my opinion, a hetero couple making out in McDonald's would be innapropriate
    and that for me, a gay couple making out in McDonald's would only be innapropriate in the same way
    little children shouldn't be exposed to people making out in the middle of McDonald's anyway,
    if a child i exposed to something sexually innapropriate for their age, then why should it make any difference whether the innapropriate thing their seeing is homosexual behavior? why is homosexuality by itself innapropriate? homosexuality is really just mother nature's population control
     
  16. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    my thoughts exactly
     
  17. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    The occurrance in idenical twins seems to draw question to genetics. So as you said (some believe :rolleyes:) Now another idea is based on female being the defaut orientation of the fetus. Apparently it takes a charge of testosterone during early development to change the embryo from a female reproductive tract to male sex organs. Its believed this process becomes incomplete and neural tissue is unaffected.

    Im no one to try to explain it but I did recently watch a documentary regarding it. So no, Im not going out on a limb. I did a quick net search but came up empty of any information directly relating to this, most of those I looked at were older studies and theorys, mostly inclusive. Many want to say is multiple factors from psychological, environment, post natal development, genetics, hormones, ect. But I personally have always felt for most people this is something that goes wrong during early embryo development.

    So what sexual orientation is the norm ? What is the normal way in which a species procreates ? Why do normal sex oriented people have adverse internal reactions to witnessing same sex behavior ? Im only trying to explain it and as far as I know this was the question of the topic. Its not a "phobia", its not hatred, its not bigotry, its simply a natural reaction. Why do some people cover their eyes at that which might scare them ? How come sometimes when one person pukes others may do the same or at least feel sick to their stomachs ? Why do we blink before a strike or while put in uncomfortable confrontations ? I just see it as natural reactions to abnormal situations.
     
  18. Ultimate_Symphony

    Ultimate_Symphony Rusted Angel

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    Pretty much the idea I was conveying. There are so many factors involved in this that we can't pin-point exactly what gives birth to this behavior, we're only left guessing and formulating theories only to reach dead ends.

    Now we're getting somewhere, you used a word that is key on this discussion and that is norm. Keep in mind that before this we were arguing if homosexual behavior was natural or not, but talking about norm is a whole different thing. I do agree with you that heterosexual behavior is the norm, or hell, it can even be called the normal behavior. Normal in the sense that it is the most common and widely accepted behavior among us humans and animals.

    Speaking about reactions, I did agree with your comment about being repulsed by such behavior. Feeling sick or wanting to look the other way is perfectly normal in a situation like this, it's just the normal reaction to a behavior that we simply do not agree with. The point where I disagree with you is that you seem to believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that homophobia does not exist, you think this is just an idea created by gay people in order to impose their criteria on others and I simply believe that is not true. There's been plenty of hate crimes done against gay people that are proof of this. However, even if I do believe this, I somewhat agree with you that homophobia is a word used way too many times by certain people in order to reach some sort of goals or attention.
     
  19. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    But I dont believe there are many factors involved, this recent idea is the first one I have been comfortable with. I realize there are some instances of psychological things like early rape or pedifilia, some girls seem to be hell bent on hatred of men, things along those lines. But Im talking about those that simply are not sexually attracted to the opposite sex for reasons that dont involve trama or teenage drama. Or those that have clear physical traits or behavior of the opposite sex. If one learns about how certain traits of men and woman are sexual stimulants caused by the origional purpose of mateing and reproduction, it becomes clear to me that the rest is a misfire during fetal development.


    Norm is natural. Many things occur in nature, various birth defects, prone to diseases, mental, physical. Going by the idea that anything that occurs in nature in therefore natural is to say that absolutely everything is "natural". One example would be to indicate that a serial killer is natural. So I have no problems what so ever in saying that not being physically attracted and sexually stimulated by the opposite sex is not natural and this is the reason firmly planted "straight" people will react negatively to viewing same sex affection. We may accept its existance, but we dont need anymore information. "To much information" as the saying goes. This is what public displays are, many people dont feel they need to witness such. Thus how I interpreted Bloodsword saying, what about the children exposed to this, for what purpose does it serve the exihibitionist to expose others to this. "Hey, Im gay and proud of it", well good for you, so show some pride and dignity, same as straight people that have nothing to prove do. Even many gay people feel this way and will have nothing to do with the "gay pride" bullshit, I believe they call it for what it is.
    again I feel it is "perfectly natural"... regardless of "whether we agree with it" that is a mental agreement thing, Im saying it doesnt agree with us to the core of our instincts, regardless of where one is in their mental evaluation and conclusion on same sex sex.

    Yes, I dont believe homophobia exists because its a bogus term and yes the term was developed to impose guilt on those that dont want anything to do with it. Homophobia literally means - fear of homosex or those that have it, there might be those quivering in knees that gay people are something to fear but I suspect most of those that have the term thrown at them so loosely, just dont want to be openly exposed to it. Honestly to me if its fine to throw this term "homophobe" around so freely and loosely like Vossyrus does (for example), its time for humanity to reclaim the word "gay" for what it really means and go back to the term queer for homosexuals, one insult deserves to be returned. It figures the homosexual community would claim a word that means "happy" to describe their sexual orientation. Then the rest of us only have "straight sex", the implications of the entire play on words here, controled by the homosexual community is bigotry in itself. But we allow them, to appease them the best we can, always hopeing someday they will shut the fuck up... :lol: It is kind of sad really that the bad examples(of anything) spoil things for the rest.

    Which brings me to the "hate crimes". Everybody is different, everybody reacts differently to things. Serial killers have killed and cut up woman because they hate them, sometimes they eat them because they love them too much... :lol: People get beat up all the time for various reasons. There is nothing special about homosexuals, they can expect that this might occur. Anybody could get in fights or thier ass kicked at any time if they didnt choose their words or bite their tongue or mind their manors according to the situation, again there is nothing special in this situation about homosexuals. I have no doubt that there is examples of random beatings for no apparent reason, at the same time I have no doubt that there is examples because some homosexual didnt know enough to "back off". There are those people out there willing to beat on anybody for what ever reason they can find. So as in the previous paragraphs conclusion... it is kind of sad that the bad examples, spoil things for the rest.
     
  20. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    my point here is that the "natural reaction" to observing homosexuality couldn't possibly be "inheirently" "grotesque", homophobia is something that has to be learned
    in societies where homophobia isn't learned, yaoi becomes the norm for the erotica aimed at females

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi
     

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