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Homophobia

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by monoxide_child, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. OzzysGirl01

    OzzysGirl01 Ozzy Freak

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    2 Girls = Win

    2 Men = Fail

    Sorry, Personal beliefs are allowed in this world..
     
  2. damnromulans

    damnromulans Klingons do not faint

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    Personally, I believe you're ugly and stupid (if that's you in your avatar)
     
  3. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    lets leave the moronic one liner immature name calling act at the GMD section of this forum shall we.
     
  4. damnromulans

    damnromulans Klingons do not faint

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    lol

    this from the guy who thinks gay couples show PDA for shock value
     
  5. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    yes I do believe that is often the reason but that has nothing to do with personal attacks which is against forum rules and general personal respect.

    Now you have posted here a few times now and have contributed nothing that adresses the subjects which is also trolling.
     
  6. damnromulans

    damnromulans Klingons do not faint

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    Dale Gribble you have personally attacked everyone in this thread who disagrees with you.

    Homophobia is like racism or misogyny. People have their opinions and that's fine and it is not our place to force them to think like us. Make all the arguments you want about it being unnatural, disgusting, inappropriate, whatever.

    Fortunately, it seems the letter of the law is slowly but steadily making progress to ensure that people with these views do not have control over people's legal rights.
     
  7. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I have not personally attacked anyone anywhere, nor call people names, respond respectufully on the subject or be quite, I only stand by and express my points.

    homopobia and racism do not exist and are only tools to place shame or guilt on people that respond naturally to things out of thier norm or intrusion they are not interested in.

    By calling me and the previous poster names you only prove your own hypocracy.
     
  8. RedFox742

    RedFox742 Power/Prog Devotee

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    This thread is so incredibly full of fail.

    How foolish we will look at a distance of 30 years, getting into an uproar about completely harmless consensual adults' private lives.
     
  9. damnromulans

    damnromulans Klingons do not faint

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    Christ almighty. You're a lost cause.
     
  10. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Can't be you are able to directly confront that idea and address whats inaccurate about it. No surprise
     
  11. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    I dont think the way you portrayed this has anything to do with how most people feel about it... the private lives part, to the best of what I remember it was more concerning public circumstances and reactions of those not consensual to exposure.
     
  12. damnromulans

    damnromulans Klingons do not faint

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    A) Homophobia: Until recently was considered a mental illness, gays still cannot marry in most countries, punishable by death in many countries

    B) Racism: Until the 1980s miscegenation laws against interracial marriage in some US states, segregation of whites and blacks in U.S., Apartheid in South Africa, massive furor/uproar over integration of public schools in the US...
     
  13. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Fuck this thread is terrible. The level of is and ought confusion is painful :loco:

    Template for future discussion:

    This is what I think other people think about x, and why:
    This is what I think on x, and why:
    This is what I think other people should think about x, and why:



    I.e.:

    People in general seem to have more grief with homo PDA than hetero, probably due to long entrenched social norms.

    I find male-male PDA displeasing to the eye - likely because of the same social norms having affected my visceral processing, even as my rational thoughts have no such problem.

    I think fair respect for both progressive reform and social inertia should be shown - progress takes time, but it also doesn't tend to happen without some level of discomfort. Just because some folk can sit around and come up with good rational reasons why people shouldn't feel any different re homo vs hetero, doesn't mean people will actually be able to feel that way. Shoving it in their face is both a means of progress (if you subscribe to such a viewpoint, as most vaguely educated and thoughtful folk seem to at the moment) and a cause of discomfort - the two need to be balanced, you can't really construct a normative argument with only one or the other.
     
  14. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Im not sure how far back you are speaking of entrenched social norms, if you are refering to extensive human history or the childhood upbringing thing. I feel there seems to be alot of falling back on the "childhood brainwashing" kind of idea. Myself I believe most things are innate, I fail to see how it can not make sense to anyone that a normal person naturally attracted to the opposite sex would not aquire a queer feeling seeing two of the same sex carry on. Further why they should be met with a face full of bigoted responses and wrought discrimination against because they do not feel like being exposed.

    Im unclear what is considered "progress". Today I would say most people in my country are fine and accepting of certain realities but question the need to constantly throw it all in everyones face. Negative reactions to any behavior out of the norm or aggressiveness is also innate. Thereby I agree that in recent times we have a wad of superheros pushing laws, rules and regulations about their idea of a perfect world and how people should react to nearly everything but its fighting human nature... trying to re-write the human psych in a few decades and hell bent to incriminalize and place bigoted tags on anyone that doesnt conform to the beliefs of others.

    Again, so much for freedom
     
  15. Vossyrus

    Vossyrus Member

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    This is a matter that goes beyond simple opinion. You're dealing with people's rights and lives. The initial post cites a simple example, but this is the same principle that allows you to be yourself and express yourself freely. And that is the whole point, this essentially applies to everyone in some form or another.

    There is nothing that anyone can say that will justify homophobia. It's no different from racism or sexism. And there is more than enough evidence to show that these are all still problems in today's world. Isn't it ok to be a black person these days? Aren't women better than second class citizens? Can anyone really present a case for either side of these arguments so that the topic is even worth a debate?

    Progress is being made, but you're not going get it unless you take action and stand up for yourself.

    The discomfort you feel when you see two men kiss is an issue you have within yourself. The two men should be able to kiss, just as any hetero couple should be able to. This isn't an act of shoving homosexuality in anyone's face, it's people being themselves and doing what should be perfectly within their own rights, free of hassle. Homosexuals are simply defending their rights/lives, homophobes are the ones on the attack - not vice versa, so there's quite a difference.

    Razordege has proven over the years that he is a complete idiot whose beliefs are continuously based out of sheer ignorace and a lack of understanding of anyone else's life, other than his own. I have no idea why concerns himself with the lives of homosexuals or transgendered community by participating in such threads when they have very little impact on his life, if any.
     
  16. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Well now we understand that it is a genetic mutation nothing can be done about. Marriage is a highly questionable also somewhat recent human brainwashing. It does carry certain legal obligations which I simply cant fantom why anyone would want to get involved in. If anything should be adressed it should be employers, government or insurance companies being required to respect ANY paired partners regardless some stupid "legal" and quite recent "Christian" paper. I think the "gay" marraige thing is simply a pursuit "just because", I highly doubt the "gay" rabble rousers would not move on to some next special privilege if the marriage "milestone" is accomplished.

    "Punishable by death" sounds like a third world thing along the lines of those Im not supposed to feel any predjudice against and welcome warmly into my country, accept their "culture" and to compete against for jobs and reasonable wages... ponder that, life is just so fucking complicated
    Oddly on the whole people of all races strongly question interacial marriage. I would guess mostly innate as well as logical questioning. However it seems here in the US in order to be accepted by the statis quo of the pushy we are nearly required to marry interracially so they will shut the fuck up.

    Do you know everything about the de-segregation movement ? Much of it was very illogical and foolishly costly. Races and cultures naturally segregate. It would have been far better to address any educational problems within those schools and not flood the country with other populations so there was ample job resources for those who the country was already responsible for after they recieved their education.

    Now the rest of your "racial" issues are old history, all that has changed, yet you want to punish anyone with any degree of preference as if they gased the Jews, traded slaves and died at the Alamo themselves. Congradulations!
     
  17. razoredge

    razoredge Member

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    Watch who you call an idiot sonny, you have yet through any debate to prove anything I have said is incorrect or anyhting you have said is correct. Typically responses I get are blowing things all out of proportion and evolve around myself being called an idiot, only proving where the ignorance lays.

    This is very personal to you, that is what you should accept, and those that have a less than enthousastic opinion of public exposure... it is also personal to. You need to accept that it is "what should be perfectly within their own rights, free of hassle."
     
  18. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Sure, but when actions affect more than ourselves we usually acknowledge that some balancing act is necessary. Hence most people engage in sexual acts away from public view, even though I guess you could argue that this imposes some limitation on expression? Doesn't do anyone harm if me and the girlfriend strip off and go at it in the middle of the mall, but for whatever reason people find it a bit distasteful and we elect to restrain ourselves because of such. Maybe we think peoples prudishness is stupid and want to make a point, so we do anyway - but in doing so we'd be choosing to negatively impact on others for the sake of our own beliefs / desires. This is not always bad of course, but as I said, I think some balance and respect for others is appropriate at the same time as pushing for 'progress'.

    I can't envisage any argument for a stance on what consenting adults do in private, I'm not sure if that's all you were defending?
     
  19. Vossyrus

    Vossyrus Member

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    It's the double standard that was brought into question, hence the topic of homophobia.

    The fact that it is generally considered ok for straight couples to make out in public, but it's considered to be absolutely disgusting for homosexuals to do the same thing.

    If people find the simple act of making out in public to be offensive, that's another matter. We can take an even simpler show of affection such as holding hands and you would still see homophobic tendencies and double standards.
     
  20. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    If you really believe that your socialisation has little to no effect on your response to things then I pity you... you're at the mercy of others beliefs and don't even recognise it. It doesn't take much cultural, historical, and zoological study to realise that an abhorrence for homosexual relations is not necessarily biologically wired at birth.



    As above, what you think of as human nature seems to be in large part human culture. Either way, our natural responses are often pretty shit in our modern world - the story of modernity is in improving on our biologically wired traits to better fulfil our biologically wired desires. You're welcome to your own views of how the world 'should be', but most people appreciate health, education, food, companionship, and as much freedom of action as they can get. Sometimes a net gain in 'freedom' requires a loss in some aspects - this is the fundamental idea behind laws.
     

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