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How do you know a master is clipping...

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by LeSedna, Jul 25, 2009.

  1. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    ... otherwise than noticing it ? If it happens to clip on the loudest part and it's hidden behind a snare hit, how do you know it ?
     
  2. AudioGeekZine

    AudioGeekZine arsehole know-it-all

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    :err:
    you mean besides the fucking red lights

    IMO the master (of a mix) should never get to that point.


    Maybe I'm missing the question
     
  3. Zack Uidl

    Zack Uidl Member

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    i don't get the question..........
     
  4. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    Well for example I often read "I achieved -9 dbRMS without clipping". And I realize while I listen to test sounds I do, that if I put a strong limiter, it clips a little. Or maybe with the trick to limit to -0.3 or -0.1 dBFS it permit extreme stupid brickwalling with no clipping, technically speaking ?
     
  5. Erik Monsonis

    Erik Monsonis Member

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    That's referring to the type of limiter you're using.
     
  6. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    I recommend listening as the best way to detect clipping. Ultimately only other nerds will "look" at your mix/master.
     
  7. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

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    But on the other hand, I know there were tons of albums I couldn't hear clipping on until I got my Tannoys, so I wouldn't wanna trust that too much!
     
  8. DaWolf

    DaWolf Mojito Maniac

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    You can detect clipping in wave editors like Soundforge etc.
     
  9. egan.

    egan. daylightdies.com

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    Ok, so ad the caveat that you need a decent listening setup. I'm not saying don't look so much as don't forget to listen.
     
  10. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    fuckin' a, just export the track, load it back into the DAW, and look at the waveform. if it's shaped like the arizona skyline, it's probably clipped.
     
  11. DestroyTheColossus

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    I think Joey Sturgis started a thread titled "I achieved -7 dbRMS without clipping" where he was referring to not using a clipper like G-Clip in the mastering chain. That's probably what most people from this board mean when they say they achieved a certain level without clipping. Beyond that, using your ears is your best bet. You'll hear it when it happens.
     
  12. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    oh okay I didn't understand that.

    Thanks, so I'll go on listening my tracks to be sure they don't clip, seems the way to do.
     
  13. colonel kurtz

    colonel kurtz Member

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    i was under the impression that it meant more "i achieved -7 db RMS without the clip indicator lighting up on the master buss"

    aka the mix got compressed/limited/g-clipped to death, but didn't peak over 0dbfs
     
  14. DestroyTheColossus

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    I went back and found the thread just to double check. Here's from Joey himself:

    http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=8166495
     
  15. Melodeath

    Melodeath Moonbow

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    This

    Also, doesn't seem particularly hard tbh. Whether it sounss any good is an entirely different matter.
     
  16. Plec

    Plec Master of Ceremonies

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    Ozone is a clipper.............
    Basically achieving something hotter than -10db RMS and still make it sound musical and as true to the mix as possible will ALWAYS mean some kind of clipping is involved. Having said that, any album hotter than -10, which is to say most of them, will have some kind of clipping going on, so you don't need to look for it really. :)
     
  17. LeSedna

    LeSedna Mat or Mateo

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    Can you explain me exactly the basics of a clipper in comparison to a limiter and how to use it ? For example I don't see the interest of the clipping knob on GClip ? Don't get it.
     
  18. DanLights

    DanLights Santa Hat Forever

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    Im as lost as you here, waiting on someone to answer it
     
  19. Metaltastic

    Metaltastic Member

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    It's pretty basic - a limiter detects when a signal goes above a certain threshold (which you set) and then brutally yanks it back to be beneath that (hence the term "brickwalling", cuz it's as if the spikes are hitting a brick wall), whereas a clipper just cuts the tops off of those spikes, which can be bad on things like guitars, vocals, etc., but very very very good on anything with super sharp transients where we barely notice anyway (especially snares). So the philosophy is: since snares usually create sound spikes higher than any other instrument in a mix, they strain the limiter because it has to work to bring them back down, but since it's only working on the master bus, the rest of the mix suffers as well. However, if you clip the snare using something such as GClip, then it doesn't spike nearly as highly, and you can bring the volume up much louder with the limiter before it starts sounding horrendous because it's not working as hard to tame all those crazy snare spikes.

    Hope that helps! :)
     
  20. DanLights

    DanLights Santa Hat Forever

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    well certainly cleared it up for me, thanks man!!
     

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