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how picky are you on performance?

Discussion in 'F.O.H.' started by bryan_kilco, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Machinated

    Machinated Member

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    performance is everything.
     
  2. Nimvi

    Nimvi Member

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    This sums up my threshold. Especially on vocals and solos, but also on other instruments, I just feel when a take is "the one". The person performing usually notices it as well. And tbh I feel it has little to do with perfect timing and flawlessness. It's just an indescribable vibe that is either there or isn't.
    In my experience, that sort of take only comes by once or twice in a day, so everything after that is a waste of energy and time. It is also the reason why I ALWAYS record what the artist is doing, no matter what he/she tells me.

    It can take a while to get that one take, so I agree that sometimes you just have to say "it's good enough", instead of hammering on that same part for hours.
    But I think that is only acceptable on parts of the song that don't have to be more than okay. On the choruses and other key parts of the song, it HAS to be perfect, or the song fails.
    I have experienced this with one song. We liked the composition and all that but for some reason we just did not FEEL it when it was done. So the vocalist suggested to do his key parts again, and it must have been a good day, because he just nailed it in one take. And it honestly saved the entire song. That was an enlightening experience.

    TLDR: Go with your gut and if you can't do it today, do it again tomorrow.
     
  3. The-Zeronaut

    The-Zeronaut Mixing..Y U SO DIFFICULT?

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    i have like a "minimum editing threshold" and i keep the take when it passes it...
    if the take needs too much editing i prefer to delete it and record it again.

    You have to know your limits and the magic powers of editing XD to determine what you can work with

    of course its better to get always the perfect or almost perfect take but...you know musicians....
     
  4. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    This has been a huge concern for me. I'm having this much trouble in this part, and the same part at band practice is always a little iffy, yet we're still playing the song live. This has been a fighting factor for my band for a while now.

    Perfect example: last night we confirmed a show in Bensalem, PA....we're required to bring at least 10 people out, or if we can't bring 10, they wouldn't even book us. So drummer boy told them we could pull 10. In reality, I don't think we can. Maybe 5. It's definitely hard to bring anyone almost 2 hours away with basically no fanbase.

    Got into an argument with them over it. They see it as "we need to take chances or we'll never get out there"........I see it as "we fail the requirements for the venue, they never have us back, we fuck ourselves in the end".....but no one else seems to think the same way. Maybe I really am the retarded one..... =/

    Or

    "We need an album title RIGHT NOW so we can start promoting it", yet the album isn't even finished being tracked, mixed, mastered, etc and we are having trouble all agreeing on 1 title. But it HAS to be done yesterday.

    Sorry, ranting. Rough day so far. Almost started another thread about the few paragraphs above because I was so pissed about it and wanted to hear what you guys would do in such a situation. You don't have a kid and just throw a quick name at it that has no deep meaning just to be able to show it off to friends.
     
  5. Genius Gone Insane

    Genius Gone Insane http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com

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    I'll add that I don't think you want it too tight. The drums are tight enough. Let the guitars add the looseness and give the music some feel.
     
  6. Terminus

    Terminus Member

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    Hmmm Frantic or St. Anger?

    :lol:


    And 10 people on a friday? I guess I don't know the area too well but in Austin we could have done that most days, maybe not on a Mon or Tues. But then most of the clubs are in one area and metalhead people just walk in off the street if they hear metal.

    Do they have a guy at the door with a pen and pad asking which band each person came for? We had that at one show, i guess we did ok at the time since they asked us back.
     
  7. Sloan

    Sloan Sounds like shit!

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    I feel a lot of people try to record parts that they have not put enough time into actually practicing (ie: trying to play above your level). If you have to sit there for an hour on a riff or whatever, then you are not ready to record it if you want a killer end result. This is another reason pre-production and demos are important. if the part is a continued problem, change the part to fit within your ability.
     
  8. cfh11

    cfh11 Member

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    i have had the problem many times where i write a riff or solo a really technical way that i think sounds cool only to find out i cant play it tight consistently. most of the time though i end up tweaking it to make it a little easier and i end up liking the simplified version better anyways.
     
  9. schismatic

    schismatic Kintsugi is coming

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    Don't record anything you can't play with your eyes closed.
     
  10. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    Sorry, but that just seems ridiculous.

    I've been in bands with some dudes who thought that way. "I don't EVER want to have to look at my fretboard" and "No one will notice if we fuck up live; as long as we're jumping around the stage it will attract people's attention".

    Right......
     
  11. Nuno Filipe

    Nuno Filipe You talkin' to me?

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    I think he is using that as an expression. Not literally speaking. What he means it´s that you have to know your shit back to front before recording.
     
  12. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    Ahh, yeah well that's pretty much a given. I always find little parts of riffs here and there that give me trouble while trying to record that I don't necessarily notice while at band practice.
     
  13. The-Zeronaut

    The-Zeronaut Mixing..Y U SO DIFFICULT?

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    If you have to record a riff or section of a song more than 4 or 5 times to get it "perfect" (or with need of just a little bit of editing) you should stop recording and start practicing with a metronome.
     
  14. indecizo

    indecizo Member

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    That's what people always say before coming to record :/

    /Rant
     
  15. JoeMeek12397

    JoeMeek12397 Member

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    I know its genre dependent, but some looseness is very healthy for a song, especially with guitar. If the guitar track (or any instrument) has an obvious groove, a good band should be able to play to that groove.

    Obvious fuck ups are one thing, but there are classic albums (again, genre dependent) that have fuck ups and most of us would think of them as perfect, or at least right. I mean this in regards to rhythm/phrasing and pitch.

    That being said what point are you at tracking-wise? Are you going to be building up from your rhythm guitar tracks or are you ODing to drums and bass or something like that?
     
  16. bryan_kilco

    bryan_kilco Member

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    Right now I'm about 7.5/9 tracks. Getting bulk of rhythms done then cleans, leads, and any overdubs.

    I've started to commit sooner and have been shooting to capture more per take rather than having to keep punching in all over the place.

    I also find that I'm quicker to dislike some takes if I listen to it back right away, rather than wait a day or 2.....
     
  17. cfh11

    cfh11 Member

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    +1

    i also find that it helps to have someone else listen to it like the other guitarist, drummer etc. (not the bassist they are terrible :lol:) to get another perspective. of course a lot of metal is about uber-tightness but sometimes we can be overly critical of our own performance to the point where its just overkill.
     
  18. Torniojaws

    Torniojaws They call me Juha

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    As long as it sounds good overall (in relation to the other band), I accept it. Otherwise, I re-record until it is good. That said, I recorded the guitars to our newest album and EP, total 18 songs at 57 minutes, in less than 14 hours (in a non-stop streak :lol:) -- yeah, I'm productive like that :) The past few albums' guitars also in less than 3 days.
     
  19. JoeMeek12397

    JoeMeek12397 Member

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    The reason I was asking about tracking was because I start a lot of tracking in my band. If I record to a loop, instead of a click, I get way better performances. Even a quantized loop seems to give me more room to breathe around, but most of the time I bang out a beat on my MPD18 and loop a section that I like. Playing to a click is like playing to some modern 4 on the floor shit like Ke$ha and that works for some things but most rock sounds much better with some natural quality to it.

    I work alone out of my basement so when I'm starting tracks I do as you mentioned. I will record rhythm/rhythm layers to a song or two (if I anticipate the same set up for those songs), then I take a break or move onto something else. If, when I return to the song, I don't like the tracks, its very simple to re-record or punch a part. If I'm dbling guitar, a lot of the times I find myself redoing the 1st track after I get the dbl down. If you're having problems dbling a part, for certain parts (especially right before a climax or during a verse), it sounds great to drop to a single guitar and pan in that guitar in a bit (to like 40-20 %) and then explode back to stereo during the climax.

    If I'm overdubbing to drums and bass its a lot easier for me to make a quick decision about how my track is working. What some might consider "sloppy" in solo can be perfect in context and when you're ODing one instrument at a time, it can be hard keep that in perspective.

    Also, if you are starting the tracks, sometimes it really helps to re-record the rhythm guitar tracks after you have the full song (guitars, drums, bass, vocals, keys) recorded. A lot of modern music sounds OD'd, there's no musical interplay between instruments.
     

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