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I AM A FRAUD!!! Don'cha know...

Discussion in 'Travis Smith' started by Seems like Trav, May 22, 2002.

  1. Seems like Trav

    Seems like Trav No Such Thing

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    Over the last few months, I have received a handful of email accusing me of stealing from other artists
    due to the fact that in the past i have had art with similar elements or vibes or whatever to another artist who may or my not have done their piece before mine. I haven't decided yet if I'm really bothered by this or not yet.
    One one hand, I am not, because I know I don't take from others and don't feel I have anything to proove, and things like that have been known to happen in all the worlds of art. I think I have already discussed this partucular frustration with Noren. One the other hand, I am bothered by the fact that it is seen that way by more than a few people and the way they present it to me.

    But i figured i'd warn you all before you found out from somewhere else :D. Plus, I'm having a bad day and just need to vent about something. HAHAH. i might even post a few of the mails here. It might start a healthy discusson on the topic in general and bring a few different points of view to the table.
     
  2. Seems like Trav

    Seems like Trav No Such Thing

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    you know, i am now wondering why i even bothered to post this.
    disregard.
     
  3. noren

    noren Pixel coordinator

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    :) Would be fun to see those mails. This is indeed a big problem. When do you know if you are TOO close to someone elses ideas?

    I'm working on a piece at the moment. It will be used not as the cover, but as the backside of a package. It has some similarities to your Soilwork idea. There are no butterflies, there is no mouth, not even the colours are similar. But still I'm struggeling with this image, cause well, it makes ME think of the Soilwork image... so what will others think? And of course the fact that it was more or less ready before I saw the Soilwork artwork won't help me.

    So who knows.. maybe I'm the one that will get pissed letters soon :)

    In my image there are flowers flying in a similar pattern as your butterflies. Is that stealing? I honestly don't know.

    Another interesting thing is a cover I'm working on at the moment. It's the second release from this band. Their first artwork was done by someone on the forum.. think I've given enough clues now :) So, the think is that this band is obesessed by a part of their first artwork and they want me to use the same style on their new artwork.. now THIS is a difficult thing. How do I do that without being accused of stealing?

    Mattias
     
  4. Seems like Trav

    Seems like Trav No Such Thing

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    TOO close i think is when you deliberately take someone elses idea and call it your own.
    sometimes if something is similar, it's similar. it happens.
    Does that mean that all those fantasy book cover artists are stealing
    eachothers dragon ideas?

    flying flowers? doesnt sound the same to me.
    and for your last question, you said it's the bands request about the style you use.
    If you can do the style, and you are hired by the band, and they request the style,
    then i don't see how that can be stealing at all. it's what the band wants and you are working for them.I'm not really sure you can even steal a style can you? Who's the band by the way? or is it too soon to say?
     
  5. noren

    noren Pixel coordinator

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    Do you mean there are more fantasy book cover artists? I just thought there were one :)
    And how many covers with doors standing in the desert have we seen?

    And about the last thing, you are right. If the band asks me to do it's up to them really.

    I don't want to name the band yet since the contract isn't signed yet.
     
  6. Seems like Trav

    Seems like Trav No Such Thing

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    I just thought i could help answer your question is all.
    Now that you mention it, i HAVE seen a lot of desert door things. maybe hundreds.
    Funny i never noticed that before. I guess it's not that big of a deal.

    I'm going to use something no one has ever thought of before: a SKULL.

    T
     
  7. noren

    noren Pixel coordinator

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    Haha! That is something I said to myself long ago!
    "Mattias, you just HAVE to do a cover with a skull before your career is over". So I did. But I was inventive enough to do it for a really soft and melodic album instead of a death metal release :)
     
  8. SamRonin

    SamRonin Will do art for food...

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    I think that one of the challenges of this art thingie is breaking the earlier influences, but that guy is obviously a bit blind to not see the elements that makes your work unique (which are many IMHO), "we are the sum of our influences" so sayeth the wise Mckean.

    By all means any healthy discussion will prove erm...healthy.
     
  9. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    I wouldnt let it bother me much Trav. Unless the ideas they say you stole from sucked. :)

    anyway..... we all know your art rocks.
     
  10. Rex

    Rex Guest

    crap, that post up there is mine
     
  11. redblueyes

    redblueyes wreathme

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    Hey Travis-
    Sorry you're having a bad day.
    There always has to be someone with something negative to say no matter how good your artform is: yours design, but it's the same with music... people pick it apart at any given chance and just spew worthless blabber on the net cause it's so easy. Especially if you got one or two people saying something, probably a "bandwagon" follows. Everybody think the same it seems. (morons) I wouldn't worry about it tho, just fucking have a drink. :p Those with any functioning brain-power already know and appreciate your talent.

    Anyways, there is only so many "objects" in the world to visualize in whatever way you guys do. Probably a lot of the guys making covers are somewhat similiar in mind-set, liking metal, liking dark things, liking death, skulls you name it.. its not surprising that somethings are gonna be similiar.

    ps- I can't think of one door in the desert tho. Whats wrong with me??? Maybe I need a drink too, cheers!
     
  12. Seems like Trav

    Seems like Trav No Such Thing

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    Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and i guess it's what i was trying to say in the beginning.
    Another good example is a Dave McKean piece. who i get accused of ripping off almost monthly.
    The piece he did for the back cover of Testament's the Gathering. There is a face with the eyes stitched shut.
    A few years earlier, i did that on skinlab's first cd. But then again, Alice in Chains did it before that. I had forgotten that. was it theivery? no. subconcious? possibly... How many other times has it been done that we don't know about? Did McKean rip off alice in chains? No. One of the songs on the cd is called "sewn shut eyes". There's not a lot of different ways to do that concept...

    I'm not really bothered by it anymore. I was at first but gave it some thought. I almost removed the thread but decided it might be a good topic to get people talking again.
     
  13. RexxeR

    RexxeR New Metal Member

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    hey man, can i have your permission to rip you off dude? i'll pick something cool.

    lol

    im jus pullin yer leg, luv ya...... mean it.
     
  14. spawn

    spawn Member

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    I dont think showing influences is a bad thing at all (not saying that you were consciously copying someone else, but its only natural for artists to want to do something as good as the people they respect, whether its music, painting, whatever).

    The only time it would matter was if you didnt put enough of yourself into your art that it became faceless, which would make it easier for people to throw the "copying" accusation around, but CLEARLY your art doesnt have that problem as you have a pretty distinct style. Ive picked some of your covers in the cd store without knowing for sure whether you did it or not, so thats got to be a good thing :D
     
  15. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    hey trav,
    should we let them in on the little bullshit you and i were dragged through before? ;) In my assessment, there's nothing wrong with being influenced by others. that's part of the struggle of developing one's own style. trav certainly has his own style, however, and he and i could point fingers at a number of these hypocrites who have taken more of his ideas than can be counted on both hands and feet. anyway, the point is it's only a problem in my book when either (a) you're cognizant that you're stealing something and continue to deny or rationalize your actions in order to profit from another's ideas or (b) you realize that you have influences, never care to develop your own style, and make a career out of "borrowing" everybody else's ideas....to the latter, i say "develop your own damn ideas!"

    Trav and I have both been accused of taking ideas from Dave McKean (I get Ashley Wood a hell of a lot more...trust me, if i were as good as Wood, I wouldn't still be stuck in my current studies) and we've even been accused of ripping each other off. The sad thing is that people don't even realize that we know one another and I can certainly attest to Trav's integrity....the guy is a conceptual powerhouse like no other...he literally has boxes of ideas written down that he won't have a chance to actualize until years from now.....and he's stealing who's ideas? haha ok, i'm off my soap box.

    btw, Trav, if you don't call me tomorrow, i'm gonna have a 350lb. gorilla come over and rough you up! :)
    take care,
    Daniel Long
     
  16. Seems like Trav

    Seems like Trav No Such Thing

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    Dan.
    well thanks man. we;ve talked enough about this so you know the drill. The last sentence of your first paragraph is wht i'm mostly accused of. I can say the same for you, and all coiencidences aside, for most every other artist i know as well.
    Bu the way, i will call soon, and when i do, you'll understand why i haven't got around to it yet.

    As an example, one of those ideas i had was a face in a hand. not a very original idea, as i have seen it done as well before. but there was this guy on here that showd a sample of his take on the idea and it ruled. it was almost exactly as i was thinking but it was better than i would have ever thought to do it.
    so guess what? i tossed it out.

    your post deserves a longer reply so ill get back to it when things are a little calmer.

    take care man
    T

    by the way, remember that idea we talked about? i thought of something even better for it.
    talk soon.
     
  17. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    hahah, awesome, i look forward to hearing your idea! right now i'm in a terrible slump, mostly due to the fact that i have to begin writing my damn dissertation proposal....oh, and i somehow managed to lose from my computer all of the notes i had prepared for a class i'm teaching this summer, which basically means that i'll have to rewrite the entire set of notes.....god i'm depressed.....:) haha
     
  18. Seems like Trav

    Seems like Trav No Such Thing

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    get norton or something that can recover lost files, and back up like 3 times.
    trust me on this one.
     
  19. spawn

    spawn Member

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    He speaks the truth! F**KING computers! :mad:
     
  20. MetalAges

    MetalAges Captain Spectacular
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    I am interested to see how my first cover will turn out, seeing as I admire and really "look" at a lot of your guys artwork. Trav, Noren, etc.

    I on the other hand, can't wait for the day I get emailed for stealing a Trav or Noren idea! LOL! I'll reply "Hey dude thanks a LOT!" LOL

    Keep up the awesome work fellas.
     

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