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I think I found whats wrong with watershed

Discussion in 'Opeth (Archived)' started by Albatros, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. beast from the east

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    There's not a thing wrong with Watershed. It's beautiful, sad, and dark, everything an Opeth release should be.

    Yet still...I find myself not listening to it that much. I still go back to D&D, Still Life and MAYH when I need an Opeth fix. I don't know what it is about Watershed, I just don't love it like I love these others. I'm hoping with time I will grow to appreciate it more and it will take it's rightful place up there with their other classics.
     
  2. Gëist

    Gëist Metal n00b

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    When you're attached to an album, it's hard to find what you've come to love before in the new one.
     
  3. Lenni

    Lenni Member

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    Well, making a hip-hop + techno Opeth-album would have been very adventurous too, but I don't think it would be desirable for me to listen to it (would give it a try though :lol:).
    Also I wouldn't necessarily say that it's progressing and making a step foward but I know where you're coming from with that opinion, because I used to think the same about bands who changed their style away from the stuff they are known for but I honestly think that most bands are especially good at doing their trademarks AND at the same time changing just as much as there is needed to still sound fresh.

    IMO they acomplished that with Ghost Reveries and all the previous albums extremely well but Watershed for me and probably a lot of other guys is just a "good" album. And as an Opeth fan you're spoiled with so many fantastic releases - Not impossible to see Watershed as somewhat of a disappointment and a step backwards.

    Still, the only bands spontaneously coming to mind that impress me as much as Opeth, (fulfilling that balance of proven stuff + good innovative stuff) are maybe Tool and The Mars Volta.
     
  4. RoadKing

    RoadKing The Central Scrutinizer

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    Which is pretty much exactly what Opeth did on Watershed. Not exactly the gross over-generalization of "progressing" into a hip-hop/techno record by a long shot, particularly considering that the record contains two of the heaviest songs Opeth has ever recorded.

    Well, it's quite impossible for me, at least. I can't even begin to imagine how it could be construed as a "step backwards" when nothing in their past catalog has featured the same level of diversity and sophistication. If you simply don't dig it, that's fine, to each his own, but a "step backwards"? Not so much.

    I'd have to add Porcupine Tree to that list, but otherwise, I'm down! :headbang: I'd have to reiterate a statement I've made before, though, that this perpetual loathing of stagnancy is an integral part of what makes Opeth well... Opeth, and the moment they lose that desire is the moment they lose that special something that makes them so much more than just another band.
     
  5. VeN-ny

    VeN-ny Member

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    I don't see how Watershed is "sophisticated". And its hard to say they are having balls by going out and writing something so unique from their usual selves. Maybe they did it just for that kind of praise! Joking. But really their latest albums were all too similar imo and this is at least something different. Not the same buzzing guitar production. For me they will never write anything close to Orchid, Morningrise, My Arms. Technology has come too far since then to ever have those sounds and productions present in future CDs. That's fine. I don't think of Opeth and choose a CD. I think of my mood, a genre, then a CD.

    Also, I think that sometimes bands try to force in things that modernize their music. I'm not saying Opeth did this but every band is at least a little influenced by other new songs they are hearing. In Flames used a chick singer and so now Opeth uses a chick singer! Okay maybe not because of In Fags....but you get it. Lastly, I think Mike gives a shit about any sort of "risk" with his 203942384230948230 fans. Many people convince themselves of liking something just because THEY are the fanboys, and want to be "t3h e1337 OP3th ph4nZ" : P

    Lastly again. Roadking? Which two songs are the "heaviest" that Opeth has done? I can't seem to find them anywhere!1111!! Burden is the best on the CD btw, but i've given only 3ish listens : )
     
  6. BefriendedUnit

    BefriendedUnit They wear white for me

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    I think your last 6 words nullify the ones before them.
     
  7. Syd07

    Syd07 Member

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    watershed lacks Zazz
     
  8. baarg

    baarg Hal 9000

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    +1
     
  9. Vuashke

    Vuashke New Metal Member

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    i would definitely listen to a hip hop / techno opeth album

    plenty of artists 'experiment' and 'progress', i dont see why opeth should be singled out for doing something new (and something they obviously enjoy)
     
  10. RoadKing

    RoadKing The Central Scrutinizer

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    Good for you! Of course, you do realize you actually admit your close-mindedness with the "they will never write anything close to Orchid, Morningrise, My Arms" line. I never said anything was wrong with this, if you don't want to hear anything different, fine, again... good for you, just don't think that the rest of the world has to agree with you.

    Again, what the fuck is wrong with being influenced by new music?! Following your own logic, if it were left up to people who think the same way, we'd all be chatting about how bitchen the latest Opeth Harpsichord Concerto in A Minor was and there never would've been a "Orchid/Morningrise/My Arms", or heavy metal OR even rock 'n' roll in general for that matter! And you really don't seem to understand just how fickle the music business is, and that you can go from successful to bankrupt virtually overnight if you're not careful. Mike & the boys are doing well for themselves right now, but if you think the guy's living in a castle somewhere with a different colored Lamborghini for each day of the week, you're mistaken. I also still can't understand the outright hostility you "br00talz" boys have for the female vocals on Coil, it's just a freakin' intro piece in reality, and they actually work quite well there, IMO, but if your jingoism precludes you from digging it, good for you. And I always find it hilarious how the "fanboy" epithet is used to pre-brand anyone who disagrees with you as a sycophant. Real confident in your opinion if ya gotta take that one-way street to Chickenshitville! I used it earlier mocking some of the previous posts where it was thrown out there as a blanket "If you ain't br00talz, you is a FANBOY!" statement.

    Being as you've seen fit to opine based on "only 3ish listens", I'll tell you. Heir Apparent and TLE are, as I said, two of the heaviest songs they've ever recorded. Also, for those with similar comprehension deficiencies, notice I didn't say they were THE heaviest, necessarily, but two of the heaviest, not that "heavy" instantly equates to "great" for all of us, mind you!

    Look man, if all you want is Mike "all br00talz/all the time", listen to Bloodbath and you won't have to worry about all those nasty melodies and pussy soft parts and fuckin' "chick singers" spoiling all your fun! Jeezus... you guys make it sound like Watershed is a freakin' Coldplay record or something! :rolleyes:
     
  11. zacmenta

    zacmenta Member

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    Roadking just expressed my opinion far more eloquently than I ever could.
     
  12. Vuashke

    Vuashke New Metal Member

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    every song that isnt the lightest could be considered 'one of the heaviest'

    but yeh, fanboyism fucking rubs me the wrong way, i dont have a problem with being a fan of the band but honestly whenever someone around here expresses an opinion (jesus christ, a fucking opinion) that isnt the typical opeth fan norm he gets strung up on the cross and crucified. i personally dont like roadking but i think hes taking the right angle here. without experimentation there would be nothing new, nothing good, nothing 'metal', everyone would be doing the same old shit. im sure many of you think the renaissance was boring as shit, but that was experimental. imagine how lifeless and boring and shit infested music would be if no one bothered pushing the boundaries of music? if you dont care for opeth experimenting or taking new paths, why bother listening or creating new albums? may as well just listen to your favourite and stick to it because theres no change

    whats with the hate of female vocals? i dont see anything wrong with them, i like them as much as i like male vocals, they just have a slightly different timbre but thats ok. dont worry, just because someone else had the genius idea to add WOMEN into their vocalist slot for a song, doesnt mean its the end of the world. opeth including a female voice probably is a result of influence, but the girl has a nice voice so stop hating

    i liked watershed alot, i like it more than ghost reveries when it came out (i havent been following opeth for very long), and i think its a great direction, although there are some parts that i still would like a bit of a change. but overall, its something new and its still good right? theres heavy songs to appease the heavy fans, and theres lighter songs and cool parts to appease those fans too. no album will ever be perfect but watershed is genuinely good and im happy to say that im proud of the band, just not so proud of all the wankers that like to bash on it for stupid reasons
     
  13. Hedon-

    Hedon- vic firth 2b

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    u said some time ago that you dont care for any vocals AT ALL so there we go another case of vuashke contradicting himself

    :cry:
     
  14. Vuashke

    Vuashke New Metal Member

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    obviously i wasnt serious when i said ALL vocals...i only meant vocals in a metal context. i enjoy old rnb singer vocals and herbie hancocks weird synth ones, but i just dont like shitty growls or shouts or the male kind of soft vocals
     
  15. in_my_time_of_disease

    in_my_time_of_disease Whipping Post

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    lol Vuashke is constantly in an argument with at least 1 person.
     
  16. Black Session

    Black Session Heretic Misanthrope

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    well Vuashke is full of bullshit ... what do you expect then.



    Anyway, just want to add one thing to this discussion: writing another album in the style of Still Life, or Blackwater Park, or Deliverance (or you name any other one of them, all unique), would NOT be easy and simple ...
    If Opeth would release 2 similar albums, no one would complain about it at all, as long as they are both of high level. Actually many good bands have done this. It doesn't mean they stopped evolving, just that they had inspiration for similar concepts, filling more than 1 album.
    Perhaps Opeth isn't even capable of producing another Still Life (or again, choose any other album of theirs). Each of them is of such a high level, such genius, that it might very well be impossible to do it again or better. So, in a way they are forced to change ...

    I like the changes on every album, despite that I wouldn't mind a similar album to Deliverance (my favourite still).
    Just don't discard making more than 1 album in the same tradition/style as being easy ...
    Examples: In Absentia and Deadwing from Porcupine Tree are often mentioned as belonging to the same style, or let's take the 3 full albums Riverside have produced thus far (admittedly as part of a trilogy), or and actually many more examples to choose from. No one is claiming for any of those bands that they are taking the easy way and are just rehashing what they already did ...

    Pretty sure that if the next album would be similar in style to Watershed, people who like the album now (me for example) will not discard it just because it doesn't show a big evolution for once.
     
  17. Lenni

    Lenni Member

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    A lot of truth in your words Black Session. I'm one of the (I think) few people, who think that the late stuff from Iron Maiden is better than most of their old (not the very old stuff with Paul Di'Anno and of course some classics) and they never really changed their stuff drastically.

    Btw., let Vuashke have his own opinion :rolleyes:
     
  18. Eternalnow

    Eternalnow Member

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    Hint: People are afraid of change:)
     
  19. Lenni

    Lenni Member

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    Not as much as they are afraid of failure...
     
  20. funeralportrait91

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    Opeth contains growls and soft male vocals, but you still like them? just a thought..
     

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