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IN FLAMES Clayman Re-recorded 2020

Discussion in 'In Flames' started by Ilias7, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. eochaid

    eochaid Asshole

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    Don't listen to it on Spotify. Download it in a good bitrate and listen to it. The sound of clayman is brilliant. You can clearly hear all of the different layers of the music and the mixing is excellent.

    I have tried several songs on Spotify and the sound is clearly inferior to even a regular MP3. At least when I use my audio system.
     
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  2. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    To be honest I like the production on TJR, Whoracle, Colony and Clayman. Each one perfectly suits what the record is trying to achieve with its sound. TJR/Whoracle have a bit of a raw edge, but they're pure melodeath albums so it works fine. Colony and Clayman lean more towards straight heavy metal and the production shifts accordingly to be clearer and tighter. The difference between the likes of Clayman and R2R is night and day. Reroute buries all the guitar leads into a terrible, muddy mix and makes Anders' harsh vocals sound very robotic. I can get past the production on that album because the songs are still very good, but when you hear Reroute songs with different production on YouTube you really hear how good some of them are - particularly the likes of Minus, Dark Signs, the title track and Dismiss the Cynics.
     
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  3. Jester Slave

    Jester Slave Narcissist

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    I heard that before, but my ears may be too dumb to recognize that Spotify sucks. Yes, FLAC sounds better.

    Anyway, sound quality is not an excuse. Whether I listened to pirate versions or Spotify versions, the same was true for all the records. How come it did not ruin the other records?

    I don't like the vocals that much. Drums and guitars are strong and sma-- heavy, but the whole atmosphere is just not good. One of my favorite tracks from the record is Squared Nothing. I think that song highlights the quality and sound of Clayman. However, I would much prefer songs like Pinball Map in any other iteration, but especially in one of the R2R/STYE/CC trio. The vocals are.... I don't know, imagine Pinball Map vocals with the raw energy of the post-CLayman, pre-ASOP era Anders, with his screams. Like Take This Life.
     
  4. Jester Slave

    Jester Slave Narcissist

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    TJR sounds like the band sit around a chinese microphone and recorded the songs in one session. How is that good? Yes, youthful edge. I agree, being imperfect fits their imperfect style, but it was hardly a conscious choice.

    Btw, as someone who likes Sonata Arctice: they redone debut record is SHIT. Soulless.
     
  5. miniroch

    miniroch Member

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    I even like Lunar Strain, with it's raw garage sound, it has some kind of Lovecraftian's gloomy vibe. The worst mixing job is both on R2R and ASOP, as the former could have been somewhere on similar level with TJR/Whoracle, while the latter could have been at least decent, minus the lyrics/vocals. Battles is beyond saving, STYE probably wouldn't achieve much more.
     
  6. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    It doesn't really matter if it was a conscious choice, if it works then that's fine, isn't it? But I disagree anyway, the production on TJR is not that bad. It was produced by Nordstrom ffs. It might not be the best production in the IF catalogue but it's far from the worst, that dubious honour falls to R2R, ASOP or Siren Charms.

    I do agree on the rerecorded version of Ecliptica, it sucked all the life out of the original... but that's exactly what's happening now with IF trying to recapture the magic from 20 years ago. Just leave it the fuck alone and move on. With that said I hope in two years time they will commit to doing a proper remaster of R2R for it's 20th anniversary, because if there's any IF album that desperately needs and deserves a remaster it is Reroute to Remain.

    You are going to seriously trigger Slave by praising Lunar Strain :D but I agree it sounds fine when you consider how rushed it was. Some songs are a bit nerfed by the production (Behind Space especially) but stuff like Starforsaken and Upon an Oaken Throne still sound killer.

    Reroute with Clayman's production would have been much better received than it ultimately was, imo. Imagine System with Clayman's production! Or Trigger, Minus, Dark Signs...

    ASOP is the album most badly let down by production for sure. I hope one day they go back to fix it. Release a remastered instrumental version of the album and I'm sold.
     
  7. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    Just found a new Nordstrom interview from January, the parts about IF:

    So, lets talk about IN FLAMES. One of the biggest metal bands that Sweden has ever had. You have been working with them from their first steps of their career. “Lunar Strain” album was your first cooperation. First of all, how do you compare the music of IN FLAMES back in the 90’s and the music they produce now? What do you thing about their latest works and “I, the Mask” album?

    Fredrik: I haven’t heard so much from their latest album. However it doesn’t sound bad. I think that this album (p.s. “I The Mask”) is better than the previous one.

    Is it just a coincidence that your last work with them, “Clayman” album, is the last respected album from their old school fans?

    Fredrik: No, it’s not a coincidence. Because I think that they always try to change. And I was like “guys…you have a concept here! Speak with that! We’ve worked this concept together. We can develop of course but we should develop from the foundation of that concept…”. While Anders wanted to do…I don’t know…Hip-Hop?? Hehehe!

    Yes, he wanted to move more into the “American sound” or something like that!

    Fredrik: Yes, exactly!

    I think that’s the big difference with DARK TRANQUILLITY, a band that never left its musical character, that character that made them be loved from the old school fans. Would you ever like to work again with IN FLAMES?

    Fredrik: Yea, maybe! Hehe! I’ve had got the question from other band members of IN FLAMES, but not from Anders. Me and Andrers had some conflict I don’t know about. I’ve got the question but it seems that it’s not gonna happen.

    IN FLAMES: “The Jester Race”. This album for me is included at the top 3 of the Gothenburg sound. Can you tell us some things about the recording sessions of this album and all the memories you have from the young IN FLAMES??

    Fredrik: The memories from that recording is that we did EVERYTHING two times! We had to redo the guitars because they were not interknitted well and then, when we stopped recording the bass we realized that we have to record the bass again because it was also not interknitted! After that, we tried to show Anders a different way of singing so when he came to the last second of the last song he was like “Oh, now I get what you mean, this would be so much better! Let’s do everything again!”. EVERYTHING in two weeks! Lastly, I had an analog gear and an analog mixing console and when I had everything mixed and ready, my son (he was 5 years old), came to the studio and changed everything!
     
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  8. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    Interesting that other members of IF have contacted Nordstrom about producing for them again (I assume Bjorn?) but as usual Anders puts the brakes on something that might actually make the band sound half-decent again. Instead he and his delusions of breaking through to the American teen market means we get Howard fucking Benson.
     
  9. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    He also didn't sound hugely impressed with Cyhra when asked, paused for a moment before saying it was "okay".
     
  10. eochaid

    eochaid Asshole

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    ASOP sounds better the higher the volume. It shouldn't be like this but it is.
     
  11. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    Completely separate from In Flames... but how the fuck have I never listened to Septicflesh before?



    This song is awesome. Time to check this album out.
     
  12. eochaid

    eochaid Asshole

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    We know that they changed producer to "improve" Anders singing. We know that the whole concept of Siren Charms was changed without first asking Bjorn. So how is this surprising? Anders is a diva. But a diva inteligent enough to understand that people only cares about him when he's labelled In Flames.

    To me, the main problem is that the rest of his bandmates, and I mean the real ones (Bjorn and the former In Flames members), not those tools that have replaced them, don't have character enough to do what should be done. That is, to stop him.

    Jesper left and allowed them to do whatever they wanted with the band, though he could, probably, stop this mess. Bjorn is in but he's just the guy doing the background music. His opinion doesn't matter and probably never did. So now In Flames is a band without a soul and without a personality of its own.

    It's amazing how, for his next project, Jesper chose to work with a youger alt version of Anders. It is as if he likes being left behind.
     
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  13. Jabi

    Jabi Member

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    From this perspective it looks kind of silly
    I kind of wish they'd used this Pelle Henricsson guy from Tonteknik Studios they had for Come Clarity for ASOP too. Björn said he had only heard two songs' worth of his work before. Also Henricsson wasn't in any way connected to the Gothenburg metal scene and had produced rather different kind of music before. So it was kind of audacious to hire him, but they made a conscious decision to be open to "someone else's" vision. They also trusted the producer to do his thing without the band watching over him all the time, to get a bit different perspective to record making. And when Pelle sent them the final mix turned out he had done a great job. (And I would agree, IMO Come Clarity quite possibly has the best production of all the post-Nordström records.)

    Björn also said Come Clarity was one of the easiest IF records to make. Jesper and he built themselves a small training space that had ProTools and a fridge full of beer. From day one they knew what kind of music they wanted to make and everything went very smoothly. They had booked the studio in advance before writing anything, to put a bit of pressure on themselves, but the material was already finished a month before the studio sessions were scheduled to begin. Björn said they'd been having a lot of fun in the band at the time, "possibly more than ever", and they were really hungry and inspired. (Apparently these were the last of times with Jesper as a high-functioning, easy going alcoholic; in his own interview from 2016 he said his downfall started when the CC tour was in Japan.)

    As for the new Clayman... well, it sounded much like I expected it to sound.
     
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  14. krofius

    krofius Active Member

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    Interesting interview there de4life. It's quite vague answers though some of them, the one about other members wanting talking about him about producing another album, doesn't really specify if we're talking 2008 or 2018...I think I remember reading an interview there were talks about it with STYE or something. I really doubt it's recently. Fredrik seems to be someone who just says it like it is, I think he would've said that Björn talked to him if that were the case considering he said he haven't talked to Anders. Björn & Anders seems to be pretty much on the same page I think. I wouldn't mind it myself, but at this point I don't think it would magically change their songwriting if they did an album with Fredrik again. Production would probably be miles better, but I would never expect another Colony or Clayman.
     
  15. TheJestersDoor

    TheJestersDoor Keep calm and bash Anders

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    Can someone remind me of the Siren Charms thing please? I had only known the band for a couple years at that point and was 16 when it came out so I wasn't aware of this forum and I only really saw what they put on social media and their interviews about it. I remember my brother telling me in late 2013 that apparently the new album was going to be more old school, and I know that Anders refused to scream over Everything's gone but that's about all I know. That and the fact it was recorded In 6 weeks etc, anders was left to finish vocals by himself after everyone else finished etc etc
     
  16. TheJestersDoor

    TheJestersDoor Keep calm and bash Anders

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    Oh and I do know that in an interview Anders said the first song he recorded was one of the bonus tracks, which figures as the 2 bonus tracks are actually really good, like, not even by SC standards, they're just good modern IF
     
  17. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    Come Clarity has a unique production for sure. Very loud and brutal, which fits the uptempo, in-your-face nature of most of the tracks on that album. I like it a lot. I think overall I just about prefer SOAPF's production but CC is a close second for sure. Not that they have much competition post-Nordstrom :D

    R2R - muddy as fuck
    STYE - dull, flat and snare sound is the worst ever
    ASOP - gross guitar tone, vocals sound horrible, mix is flat
    SC - no comment needed... disgusting
    Battles - would have been good for California Pop-Punk, maybe
    ITM - improvement on Battles but not by that much
     
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  18. DE4life

    DE4life 'ello treacle

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    Yeah you're right he didn't specify timeframes, I suppose it could have been Jesper, Daniel or Peter. Who knows.

    I agree that better production would not fix the songwriting problems in the band, but I also don't think Nordstrom would let them get away with some of the shit other producers have. It's probably why they wouldn't be able to work together. IF are used to a high degree of autonomy these days and I think Fredrik would find it difficult to step back and let Bjorn abuse the wah pedal, etc.
     
  19. krofius

    krofius Active Member

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    True it would definitely be an improvement. I think realistically the odds of it happening any time in the future is 0% though. Come Clarity was interesting indeed, I know they recorded it all seperately, I remember that Anders just did all the vocals by himself with Daniel Bergstrand. I don't think Jesper, Björn, Daniel & Peter did their parts together completely either.
     
  20. Jabi

    Jabi Member

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    From this perspective it looks kind of silly
    There's a Finnish interview you can try with an online translator if you like: https://www.inferno.fi/uutiset/miehet-jotka-soittavat-rockia-haastattelussa-flames/

    It's probably a bit of an overstatement to say "the whole concept was changed" but Björn and Niclas do say several songs had very different feeling to them in the demo phase before the vocal parts came along.

    An excerpt run through Google Translate:

     

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