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Discussion in 'In Flames' started by PlainVanilla, Feb 1, 2016.
For what it's worth I'd probably agree with you.
Anders doing quite okay on Moonshield. His 'singing' on Paralyzed, Deliver Us or Where the Dead Ships Dwell is cringeworthy tho.
Some time I ago I read an interview with Björn and Niclas where Björn said that two or three years before Jesper left they were supposed to go on a tour (I guess it was the ASOP tour then) and THREE DAYS before take-off Jesper suddenly told the other guys that he's sorry but he just cannot board that plane. So Björn called Niclas up and luckily he was both able and willing. They rehearsed the 17 songs of the set in one sitting while consuming 2 litres of coffee. I knew Jesper has been having issues, but I didn't know it was that bad.
Björn also said he feels playing live is 99% of their musical work. No wonder Battles sucked so much, they probably should've given more than 1% to it.
Oh, sod off! What is this pretentiousness assuming people go to live shows to hear studio-quality work? Especially considering that the average attendee has at least 3 beers in them, so it's not like they are dressed up in tuxedo to enjoy some fine music.
You want to get rocked, that's all.
Your back and forths about Anders voice is just hilarious, and after all these years, it must be trolling just to induce such replies from me or krofius, but I give you guys a pass, because this board is pretty dead.
Anyway, I've been watching their setlists and they are pretty okay, but I guess if you can't complain about it, then you won't eve mention it.
This format was brought to you by only4theweak, so you can count the paragraphs and know exactly how many times you will be CRUSHED and DESTROYED by Mr. Slave. Should've put out a warning....
No one wants to hear studio quality work live. Just good performances. Since I don't drink any alcohol I'm one of the few that will.actually listen to the live performance
And yep, anders still sucks live, even though he says that he was attending a vocal coach or something like that.
In the meantime, they keep on pretending that anders is a good singer and that he constantly improves his voice. He is not and he doesn't. He is a mediocre to bad singer and only the use of pro tools at studio and the constant repetition of takes makes him look as a competent studio singer. That is what I call a fraud. But, hey, that's my opinion.
I don't actually watch any new In Flames live videos because I know how Anders sounds and my ears can be treated to far better sounds than that. It doesn't matter so much when you're actually there, because most of the time the guitars drown out his weak cleans anyway. It's only when they're amplified on video that you realise how bad they are.
Slave is like an old, out of shape boxer trying to make a desperate comeback. You can see some of the old fire but it's mostly a sad, broken man.
Yeah, fuck you.
Also, what the fuck Chester, what THE FUCK...
I knew depression was bad, but did not know just the extent of it. Wow....
That's sad. LP were one of the few nu metal bands I actually had any time for when I was in high school.
I know I'm essentially posting into the void at this point, but I was listening to Come Clarity (the album) this morning and I was reminded how great it is. Considering it was sandwiched between STYE and ASOP, it's like this album came from an alternate dimension where the band changed their sound a little but were actually still good.
I can't get over how powerful Anderz vocals are on this album, and how powerful the album is in general. Considering it had been preceded by R2R and STYE, and ASOP came afterwards, it's bizarre that they managed to record something so strong in the midst of some very weak-sounding releases. Just to note I do like R2R and some of STYE, but the production on both is weak. CC has a much harder style and it works really well. Vocally it's probably Anders best performance since Colony and his cleans shockingly sound good. I mean, there's a ton of ProTools involved and he couldn't pull them off live, but on CD at least this is maybe his best ever effort at clean vocals. It helps that he limits his cleans too (title track aside, which incidentally is not good vocally). His screams are much better than they were on Clayman, R2R or STYE. His voicebox actually sounds healthy. Touring for this album must have fucked his throat over again because the difference between this and ASOP is pretty tragic.
Come Clarity and SOAPF, two tiny gems from 13 years of the band taking a gigantic dump on their legacy.
Agree. They were inspired for Come Clarity. If they had not pulled it off and instead had another STYE or ASOP came early I wonder if they would have just broken up at that point. Come Clarity did bring them a lot of success. Without that high point I think they would have been done.
It certainly would have been more natural for them to progress from STYE to ASOP. A progression of R2R>STYE>ASOP is fairly logical in terms of their devolving sound. CC just came out of nowhere and gave a lot of us some false hope that the band weren't quite done yet. They did it again with SOAPF a few years later, albeit not to the same level as CC.
Take CC and SOAPF out of the discography and you get an album timeline of R2R>STYE>ASOP>SC>Battles ... which is a significantly more logical progression. I agree that without CC their popularity would have taken a hit, as I simply can't imagine ASOP having the same impact CC did. Musically ASOP was alright, but the production, lyrics and vocals just destroys everything good about that album.
Would they have split up? Honestly, I doubt it. I think their popularity would have flatlined at STYE levels and that was enough for them to continue. I do think it's plausible to assume that in a world line where CC doesn't exist, neither does Siren Charms. I'd imagine the band would have gone in a different direction. Come Clarity was arguably their peak as a popular metal band, so take that peak away and they still have a higher spot to aim for. Maybe it translates to albums with more effort than SC or Battles. Maybe not. Either way I think they would have continued, just on a different trajectory.
I love CC and I think that has Anders' best screams. He just goes all out. I like SOAPF a lot too, but I really wish it had a similar raw/hard production like CC. It's too smooth and soft.
I had R2R on earlier and SOAPF is kind of like a more polished version of Reroute. I thought there were a lot of similarities.
Cc is my personal favourite.
In terms of post-2000 albums CC is definitely up there for me in the second tier. Excluding Lunar/Sub my tiers would look something like
The jester Race/Colony/Reroute to Remain
Subterranean/Soundtrack to Your Escape/Sounds of a Playground Fading
A Sense of Purpose
(And in a very low position)
I'm surprised you put Battles below the musical abomination that is Siren Charms.
I mean, Battles is nothing special, but at least it has some catchy parts and isn't a total downer to listen to. I was going through the SC tracklist earlier and the only songs I could remember large chunks of were Through Oblivion and Become the Sky. I've genuinely forgotten almost everything else about that album - which is quite nice.
Also, Lunar Strain below ASOP? BRO. Lunar Strain has Behind Space, Starforsaken, Everlost Part 2, In Flames, Upon an Oaken Throne and Clad in Shadows. ASOP has "I feel like shit but at least I feel something" and "please heal meeee, I can't sleeeep"... I'm begging you to reconsider.
Huh, so, I re-listened to Siren Charms to see whether it was as bad as I remembered. As it turns out...
In Plain View - This is actually worse than I remember. It's got a really nice intro, but the verses are really boring and the chorus is ruined by the vocals being far too high in the mix. This sounds like it wasn't mastered properly. As an aside, Anders growling "are you for real?" is a total copy of the same line in Trigger. 5/10
Everything's Gone - The copy and paste of the Black & White intro here still gets me. That's two songs in a row where they've borrowed a small element from R2R. Anyway, much like the first song, the verses are atrociously boring. Pre-chorus and chorus are OK. Again the vocals sound like they weren't mixed properly. Not really sure what they were going for with this one, but it doesn't work regardless. 4/10
Paralyzed - I always thought this song was OK, and it still is. Decent chorus, once again the verses let the song down. But overall it's decent. Vocals actually sound like they were mixed properly this time. The scream at the end of this song is awesome, reminds me a little of the scream at the end of TJR (the song). 6/10
Through Oblivion - I hated this one when I first heard it, but honestly, it isn't bad at all. It's electro-pop, but if I'm being truthful I can't say they did a bad job. I actually enjoyed listening to this one, which I'm kind of shocked to admit. 8/10
With Eyes Wide Open - This was one of my favoured tracks originally, and it still holds up well. It's basically an ASOP song done well. Guitar tone and overall sound is very remiscent of ASOP, just with much better production and improved vocals. I like it. 7.5/10
Siren Charms - Another one I found very boring when the album first came out, but on reflection it's actually not as bad as I remembered. I like the tempo change in the chorus, and the verses aren't too bad. Anders is tolerable. 6/10
When the World Explodes - More like When My Ass Explodes, amirite Clay-Man? To be honest, I can kind of see what they were going for, but it just doesn't work. Anders throws more screams on here than he probably does on the rest of the album, and he sounds decent. The chorus is nice too, but it sounds like it's been spliced in from a completely different song. The female vocals are also a little to high in the mix in comparison to Anders' verse vocals. This is one of the most energetic songs on Siren Charms, but yeah, basically a poor man's Dead End. 5/10
Rusted Nail - If I remember correctly this was the first single. The opening is like something off SOAPF, which is good, but as soon as it hits the first verse the song loses all momentum. Anders vocal melodies are totally off on this. Like so many songs on this album, the chorus is fine, but the song is let down by the verses. 5/10
Dead Eyes - Similar to WEWO. I didn't really like this one when I first heard it, but again, in retrospect it's actually alright. Anders sounds okay, there are some nice little melodies and the verses flow naturally into the chorus, which is something other songs on this album seriously struggle with. The breakdown half way through is really well done and the guitar work here sounds great. Overall this song is far better than I remembered. 7.5/10
Monsters in the Ballroom - Something about this song has just never worked for me. There's nothing inherently wrong with it - some nice melodies, decent riffs, vocals aren't terrible either. I can't put my finger on it, but something about the song just doesn't click for me. 5/10
Filtered Truth - Everybody but me seemed to love this one when it came out. I didn't understand the love for it, and truth be told I still don't. Intro sounds like a HIM song, vocals and all. There is some nice guitar work here, but the vocal melodies aren't working so well in the verses. Chorus is OK I guess, but nowhere near the best on this album. Not a bad song, but nothing special either. 6/10
The Chase - A lot of people liked this one, but it's never been one that I enjoyed a whole lot. The production is a lot more powerful, which is nice, but it suffers from boring verses and vocal melodies which fail to match the instruments. Same issue as most SC tracks. I will say the solo in this one is actually quite nice. The song overall is okay, but really not sure why it gets so much praise. 6/10
Become the Sky - My favourite SC track at the time, and still is. It's energetic, has some really cool riffs, and vocals actually have some life in them. I could do without the chugga-chugga shit in the verses, but it still works okay. Pre-chorus & chorus are very remiscent of SOAPF, which is always a plus in my book. A lot of nice guitar melodies in this one too. No question for me that this should have been on the main CD. 8.5/10
So, I'm kind of surprised to say it, but listening to this album again actually significantly increased my opinion of it. It's far from their best album, but truth be told I've probably been quite harsh in shitting on it all of these years. There's actually a lot of good stuff on here. I'm stunned to say that Through Oblivion is my favourite song on the album, excluding the bonus tracks. Become the Sky wins overall. For me, the album has four consistent flaws which drag it down:
Vocals - Anders' vocals don't ruin this album like they did on ASOP, but they are still very hit and miss. Sometimes he sounds fine, other times he sounds whiny and intolerable. He sounds like he's trying, but you can tell he's never really had any proper vocal training. Studio magic is working overtime here. Considering he sings for almost the entire album it was inevitable that this would be an issue. If you can tolerate Anders' cleans then this isn't a huge problem, but if you can't then this album is basically unlistenable.
Verses - They really fucked up the verses on a lot of songs here. Uninspired instrumentally and the vocals often don't even match the pattern of the instruments. Not sure what happened here as this has never been a problem before. The verses knock 2 or 3 points off a lot of the songs on here.
Mixing/production - Again, not sure what happened, but the mixing on this album is all over the place. Especially vocally. Some of this sounds like demo tracks that never got a proper master. As with above, it's not something that's been a problem before and it wasn't something that happened on Battles either. They've had albums with bad production before, but this is more like inconsistent production. Really strange.
Lack of variety/energy - My biggest gripe with SC is the lack of energy across the board. Most of these songs are okay in isolation, but they are so similar structurally that listening the whole way through is a bit of a chore. I understand they were going for a darker, slower vibe but this isn't traditionally what In Flames have been about and it's little wonder it caused such a negative reaction. Both bonus tracks should have been included in the main tracklist to bump the energy levels up a little. I'd relegate two of In Plain View (not a great opening track), Everything's Gone, Monsters in the Ballroom or Filtered Truth to bonus tracks and have The Chase and Become the Sky in their place.
Still, overall, I'd give SC about a 6.5/10. Not the absolute trash I remembered, just a record with some strange flaws and a lack of creativity which hold it back from being one of the band's better efforts. Apologies to Krofius, Slave, PlainVanilla, Ciko and all the others who loved SC. I think I overreacted on this one. My bad.
Battles sounds like an expensive album from a teenager alt- rock band. It lacks personality and emotion. This is why.
As for lunar strain, maybe it's the production, I don't know, I like more the rerecordings that they did from songs of that album than the original versions. And asop has some very good songs, though it lacks more effort.
And I must add that I liked soapf more than I do know.