Jens Bogren stem master comparison.

Thanks for posting, if he didn't use a limiter I wonder how he did it.

 

Thanks for the topic, that's interesting. Downloading the files right now.

I think, it's mostly clipping (converters). Or using a clipper when mixing ITB.

 

Sorry if I'm being dense, but isn't a clipper just a more extreme variant of a limiter? Which would make what Jens is talking about worse, not better?

 

Well, not exactly. Clipper doesn't kill the snare until you really slam it. But it's more dangerous in terms of digital crackling when toms, vocals or, say, subdrops reach it's threshold.

Most wide-spread way to boost loudness without burying the snare is using a clipper until it's "almost there" and then adding a db or a bit more of your favourite limiter.

Now, if the snare is too loud in the mix, it will remain too loud after applying a clipper, and the mastering engineer is forced to use tools which bury it's attack.

 

Great sounding track - well done!

I would second Jens Bogren's advice on limiting. It reduces the mastering engineer's options quite significantly.

 

But.... You can mix into one and then just take it of at the end maybe give the mastering engineer a copy with your limiter on to hear your intention?

 

The whole point was that when you mix through a limiter you tend to push the snare (for an example) up so you can hear it. And when the limiter is off the snare track is too loud. And that might be a problem for the masterin engineer as he could've gotten the snare audible with less volume too.

Please correct me if i'm wrong. I toi tend to push the snare.

 

Was just about to post this.

This comparison was pretty eye-opening for me. I won't be mixing through an aggressive mastering chain any longer, as I have been having trouble with the snare drum in particular on my masters. Thanks for posting this Keregioz.

 

This was great and super helpful. Thanks for posting these!

 

Absolutely - there are no rules when it comes to mixing. I personally also don't have any issues with bus compression, if it creates the kind of sound you like. Basically, make the track sound as good as you can and leave the mastering engineer to worry about getting the loudness up to a competitive level.

 

There's saturation and clipping. Clipping your drum bus or mix to tame the drum transients does NOT work like a compressor. If you have a loud snare, it triggers the compressor on the ENTIRE mix, creating pumping and killing the transient. The clipper just kinda shaves off the top without affecting the rest of the mix. You do have to be careful though with the toms and vocals hitting a clipper when they poke out. So many albums today have very audible clipping in these stages (Deftones, Alice in Chains) that sounds like it's caused by clipping and/ or excessive limiting.

The good mastering engineers use a combination of everything in small steps, along with careful eqing, and I'm sure some magic pixie dust, to get what they get.

It's pretty obvious here the difference between the Jens mastered track and the ozone one. Sounded pretty damn good before, but Jens gave it that extra presence in all the right places and just made the snare sit perfect. Awesome stuff!

 

WEll.... thats cool....


I know one of my fav mixers users L3 multi and l2 and it works great but he takes it of for mastering. better too much than not enough i say!

 

When do You know when it's "almost there"?

 

When this happens:

 

And to add some info, Jens mixes with a compressor on the masterbus..

 

I was just about to ask that

Awesome, eye-opening info. Thanks for posting!

 

Any recommended reference reading for mastering using clipping?

 

+1

 

+2