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Judging a book....(part 2)

Discussion in 'ProgPower USA' started by TribunalRecords, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. General Zod

    General Zod Ruler of Australia

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    I know they believe it helps market the disc, I just wonder if it does. As I said, who's buying the disc because of a 30 second contribution from an artist they enjoy?

    With respect to this disc specifically, Kamelot and Epica have toured a lot together, which would explain their use of Simone. Kamelot and Epica also draw from the same well, so I don't think there are too many Epica fans who aren't already Kamelot fans. Gus G. and Thomas are very good friends. In my interview, Thomas talks about how he almost became a member of Kamelot years ago. As for Jon, Thomas is from Florida and is a Savatage fan. Ultimately, you may be right, but I'm just not seeing it on this one.

    I know this is done often in the mainstream world, and I have no doubt these ideas filter down. However, where I think it's different, is many of these tracks are released as single, and available on iTunes as a single song purchase. And I think the mainstream world is a world where many people only buy singles.

    Split EPs? When's the last time a Power Metal band did a split EP? Who are they, Enslaved? :loco:

    I do think Kamelot is very into their music, and put a ton of time into crafting it. Obviously, that's just my opinion.

    As if anyone on the planet, outside these boards, knows/cares that Gus G. is Ozzy's new guitarist. Most Ozzy fans, if they were to ever actually hold that Kamelot disc in their hand and read that description would likely think it was a misprint.
     
  2. AMBR

    AMBR Metal Grandma

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    I love all those little cameo collaborations or whatever you call them. If it's a marketing technique, good for them! God forbid they actually make some money in the music business instead of remaining starving artists. They still turn out great music so they have all my respect, and I hope they continue to bring in guest musicians. I think it keep the music fresh.
     
  3. 1000 Faces

    1000 Faces Member

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    Also, she's dating Oliver, which is why she's practically been a sixth member of the band for years.
     
  4. Jasonic

    Jasonic Doom On!

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    Have people not been paying attention?
    This was pretty much the same look used to promote Ghost Opera.

    They always had that half goth / half power metal image going, at least in my eyes.

    It fits with their music which I think has gone in that direction.

    I do believe its working for them.
    Last time I saw them, there were MANY large girls in WAY too tight NIGHTWISH t-shirts going crazy.

    So, yeah, a couple steps away from Ozzfest could be likely, but if they keep putting out quality metal, who cares?
     
  5. AngraRULES

    AngraRULES Member

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    I was just thinking about the same, I don't think their image has changed much over the last years... it's been pretty much the same.

    :lol: at the Nightwish tight shirts/large fans comment. :lol:
     
  6. TribunalRecords

    TribunalRecords Record Label(s)/Vocalist

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    i would assume that cold air affects his vocal cords. just my hunch, but i would assume that is what is it. i scream much better when it's hot and humid in a venue. do i like it that way? not really, but it's better for my throat in the long run.

    and i bet the coat smells awful, but that is why he has like 10 of them in wardrobe or enough for a rotation and laundry.
     
  7. KYF_Cincinnati

    KYF_Cincinnati The Metal Professor

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    Hey Sean Tibbetts, even "Cock-eyed baseball hat guy" thinks rocking the white-man braids is shameful. Unless he's trying to be funny, Sean Tibbetts would never braid his hair if he knew how it was perceived by most in the U.S. How about having your own identity instead of copying someone else’s. Sad, very sad...

    Khan is a good example of someone who bucks the trend and usually has his own identity, i.e., the old Conception photo. He's one of the few to rock the short hair-cut almost from the beginning.
     
  8. General Zod

    General Zod Ruler of Australia

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    The only difference is swapping out Sean, who looks like a member of a NuMetal band, for Glenn.

    I think the original poster's point is being lost. True, Kamelot's unique take on the blending of Power and Prog, with Gothic elements, offers a level of sophistication that few other acts can match. And subsequently, they can go as extreme as they like with their image, and the music will speak for itself. However, to the original poster's point, had this band shown up on our radar with their current image, including Sean, before we had heard what they're capable of musically, some people may have simply chosen to ignore them based on their current image.
     
  9. TribunalRecords

    TribunalRecords Record Label(s)/Vocalist

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    exactly, zod. like i said this was continuation from the previous thread about judging bands and i was wondering if Kamelot would get a "pass" from everyone and they did as i expected.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. General Zod

    General Zod Ruler of Australia

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    Early sales estimates suggest Asylum will debut at #1 next week. This will be Disturbed's 4th disc in a row to debut at #1. I believe only seven acts in the history of music had accomplished this feat three times in a row. Doing so four times in a row suggests Disturbed is moving into some pretty rarefied air.
     
  11. AngraRULES

    AngraRULES Member

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    I am not surprised by that. Disturbed's fanbase is not just the mainstream crowd. They have consistently released quality music throughout their career. They're a solid act; the most respectable mainstream hard-rock/nu-metal band there is. They deserve that status and the success.
     
  12. Bryant

    Bryant Mr. Sleepy

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    Hey man keep your carrot to yourself !! :Spin:


    Bryant
     
  13. General Zod

    General Zod Ruler of Australia

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    Agreed. I own all of their discs. I totally dig Draiman's vocals, and often his lyrics.
     
  14. skyrefuge

    skyrefuge Member

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    I'd say it's about awareness, about broadening your market. The target is not the hard-core fans like you and me, who go out of our way and do our own work to find new bands to listen to. It's the more casual fan, who may be a mega-fan of a few bands, but needs help to look beyond that circle.

    I argue that that sort of casual fan is FAR more common than the hard-core music fan, even in the metal world, and thus, it makes a whole lot of sense to try to reach them. Think of all the people out there who are Dream Theater SuperFans, but have never even heard of any of the prog-metal bands that play ProgPower.

    This is also why ProgPower sells 90% of its tickets in a week, and then has to work like hell to sell the final 10%. The hard-core music fans are dedicated, but limited in number. I think this is why, to sell that last 10%, Glenn focuses more on casting a wider net (advertising to locals who may be just a fan of one band, bringing Turisas on board, etc.) rather than drilling deeper (asking past attendees "c'mon, don't you *really* want to buy a ticket again this year?!?") You have much more unlimited growth-potential if you can double the people aware of your name and get 10% of those new people to make a purchase, than you do if you only try to raise the purchase ratio among your hard-core fans from 70% to 80%.

    And think about threads you've seen in the past about "how did you first hear about Band X?" There are usually a lot of odd, serendipitous answers. It's not like everyone is born with a memorized list of every band in existence. There has to be SOME way that you first hear about a band, and "I saw that a musician I really like played on their album" is as good a reason as any.

    One of my best friends has absolutely no interest in metal, except that he LOVES Fear Factory's 'Remanufacture', and owns a couple of Savatage albums. If he happened to be in the mood to acquire some new music, and saw a sticker that mentioned Savatage on a Kamelot album, who knows?

    Really, I guess if they were smart, the sticker/press-kit should say "Jon Oliva (TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, SAVATAGE)"!

    Yeah, that one they're just lucky that she's in a well-known band, and hot, so they're happy to take advantage of it, but I agree, it's probably not that calculated-in-advance. She really fits in the same group as Thomas Rettke and Robert Hunecke-Rizzo, but since "HEAVENS GATE" (sadly) doesn't mean shit to anyone, those guys don't make the press kit.

    This is what I mean about being deep into their music scene...yeah, if Jon and Thomas go to local shows and see each other all the time, stumble home together drunk and jam out a bit before they pass out, if they share a practice space, if they help set up local gigs for each other, than sure, it's a totally natural thing to guest on the album. But does that actually happen? I would guess that them both being "from Florida" doesn't mean jack in the real world. Barack Obama is from Chicago, but I ain't never seen the dude.

    Yeah, and you certainly may be right about this case, maybe business considerations don't enter Thomas's mind at all. But it still would have been a very interesting question to ask, and much more useful to hear the answer from his own mouth then to hear a couple of jackasses on a forum making baseless speculations. :)

    And yeah, it's really none of the people you mentioned that made me say "hmm...", it's the Shagraths and Strids that do that.

    Well, in either world, it's cross-promotion, and cross-promotion can be a very cost-effective way to advertise your product.

    Oh, no doubt. Being into their own music, and into the *music scene* are two separate (and nearly opposing) ideas. The more into your own craft and vision you are, the less likely you are to have some guy just email you a guitar solo to paste into your song, because it might not meet your vision of what the song is supposed to be. At the other end is the collaborative, give-and-take sort of music-making that you see in the underground experimental/jazz world.

    Maybe not at the moment, and maybe never, but it's a hell of a smart and low-risk idea to buy his stock right now when it's low. In the past, being a guitarist for Ozzy has had a rather strong track record of hugely inflating your stock!

    Neil
     
  15. nomisofsiman

    nomisofsiman Member

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    Pretty much what I thought too, and as you said this image isn't anything new for them.
     
  16. Jibrille

    Jibrille Member

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    A well-known band thanks in (large) part to Kamelot. They guested on each other's albums in 2005 and Epica opened their Black Halo North American tour. Epica's willingness to follow through with regular US tours despite their first headlining tour not doing all that great has a lot to do with the rest. Kamelot has little to gain from this relationship while Epica gained a lot, including their band name.
     
  17. TribunalRecords

    TribunalRecords Record Label(s)/Vocalist

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    i have all of four albums and don't plan on buying the new one simply because i have enough Disturbed. in no way by me posting their picture is it a put down, simply a picture to back up my statement. i mean i could have posted pictures of plenty of bands no one has heard of, but this one struck the right chord with me because of the "braided" look. haha. i understand their impact totally.
     
  18. Harvester

    Harvester The Promoter

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    This.

    I miss the monkey fuck howls though. :erk:
     
  19. OrbWeaver

    OrbWeaver BECAUSE FALCONER

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    I agree. I only have the first two albums, though. I really like Believe, and if the rest of their catalogue follows in that same vein, I should probably grab some more Disturbed.

    I also enjoy earlier System of a Down.
     
  20. Jibrille

    Jibrille Member

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    Their self-titled is outstanding.
     

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