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Kazrog: Recabinet Dynamics

Discussion in 'Backline' started by HOFX, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. HOFX

    HOFX Member

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    Kazrog, I'm of the impression that the final step in software guitar simulation is the cabinet section. There is always the stuffy static mid range part that we can't get away from, but when I hear Kemper demos, it sounds open and natural like a real mic'd amp.

    The dynamics part in Recabinet brings it a step closer, but it's not quite there yet. So I had a few questions about what makes a speaker dynamic, and how can it be simulated.

    I understand the dynamics knob adds saturation depending on the signal level. Does it also alter the EQ response due to signal? Or is the EQ response on a cab speaker quite constant?

    What do you think is the missing bridge between current static IRs and realistic dynamic simulations?

    I'm interested in the input of others on this too.
     
  2. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    I asked at the time, but don't recall getting a response, but what does the dynamics knob do? Tbh, I barely use it above noonish. I find it just adds a rather unpleasant scratchiness to the tone, particularly clean tones.
     
  3. Red Phoenix

    Red Phoenix Member

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    i found that the dynamcis knob makes it worse..i liked it better turned off. I only heared more unpleasant saturation with it. to tame the static highend i choose a dynamic equalizer which decreases the highs just a little bit with different inputvolumes.
     
  4. He's Dead, Jim

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    I find it gives a really nice thump to the cabinet's bass resonances without being overpowering, but it does tend to make the highs a bit scratchy, so I try not to push it too hard. My recollection is that it's just a low/high shelf.
     
  5. EOC

    EOC Member

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    what i used to do with sims is to use any kind of dynamic eq or multiband comp (such as c4) to simulate a more dynica low end by "expanding" the low freq in palm mutes etc. Sometimes i also work with mids. The key is for the eq to react to the input of the sound so it is not a static spectrum but it chances when a part of the freq increases in volume.
     
  6. HOFX

    HOFX Member

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    What if the cabinet section was then made in three stages?

    1: Dynamic IIR EQ filters based on in put signal
    2: Saturation algorithm to account for speaker coloration.
    3: IR response to capture the room reverberation

    That wouldn't take too much CPU hit, because you're only doing one IR process.
     
  7. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    The dynamics control in Recabinet accurately simulates the nonlinear behavior of speakers. Some speakers are more nonlinear than others, so this control allows you to dial in just as much nonlinearity as you want. However, the realism of this effect is highly dependent on the realism of the signal going into it. What are you using in front of Recabinet?
     
  8. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    5150III-50watt preamp output.
     
  9. Kazrog

    Kazrog CEO/CTO, Kazrog, Inc.

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    Great! A huge part of the realism that you're missing here is the power section, which has far more influence on tone than the nonlinearity of a speaker (which even at high levels is minimal.) Recabinet may or may not allegedly be doing something about that in 2014, possibly... ;)
     
  10. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    Also amp sims, like LePou's xTac. The low end is fine personally... it's more the slight scratchiness it adds that bothers me.
     
  11. He's Dead, Jim

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    WAT.
     
  12. Skaldir

    Skaldir formerly known as Unicorn

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    Take the effects send and compare
     
  13. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    No difference dude.
     
  14. HOFX

    HOFX Member

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    I played with Ignite Amps TPA-1 and with S-Gear's power amp tweaks, sure they change the tone and grit, but they don't seem to add anything to the dynamics.

    I'm wondering what the Kemper is capturing that is not yet part of the amp sim - cab IR chain?

    The other thing with the Kemper, is old mate (Christophe?) said that he didn't approach it as modelling a set of electric components, rather, produced an algorithm that tunes itself to reproduce the whole chain - or something like that. It was a fundamentally different approach to modern amp sims.

    Sorry to bang on about the Kemper, but it is reproducing something that is not present in current gen amp sims.
     
  15. Studdy

    Studdy Member

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    Im also confused about that. Why wouldnt ITB be up to par or better than a kemper. I dont know a ton about programming plugins but you would think that it would be the other way around, that it would be more difficult outside the box.
     
  16. He's Dead, Jim

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    Have you tried turning up the resonance on the TPA? I find that the coloration of the plug-in is moderate, but the resonance is what gives it a different feel, which may be what you're after.
     
  17. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    Even though I have a couple of amps, I *really* want a Kemper. Bahhh... stupid "too much gear" situation....
     
  18. MIAnn

    MIAnn Juniors Member

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    So Recabinet 4 will have its own poweramp section :yow:
     
  19. HOFX

    HOFX Member

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    Righto, I'm going to do some tests and post later today. I'll select a pre-amp sim (LE456 perhaps?), TPA, and Recabinet and adjust the TPA resonance (off, half, full) and Recabinet Dynamics knob (off, half, full) to compare, with 4 bars of open chords and 4 bars of palm mutes.
     
  20. drew_drummer

    drew_drummer Dancefap

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    LePou's stuff has poweramp modelling AFAIK.
     

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