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Discussion in 'ProgPower USA' started by KingsGene, Oct 21, 2014.
Oh no doubt. But in terms of musical genre, more tech thrash than prog metal. Wouldn't you agree?
tech thrash? ummm, what?
My top would look different but honestly the only band I take exception with on that list is X Japan.
You gotta pay attention now. Keep up. Cynic. We were talking about Cynic. Technical death/thrash band.
I wouldn't. Opeth and Mastodon have very long and structured songs influenced by 70's prog rock bands, with very similar arrangements, but with metal riffs. The idea to me that progressive music means "moving the genre forward" is something I never understood one single bit. Nine Inch Nails moved music forward. Black Sabbath moved music forward. Metallica moved music forward. Possessed moved music forward. Nirvana moved music forward. I wouldn't in a million years call them prog.
That's because the definition of what is "progressive" has always been amorphous. Certainly I've seen plenty of arguments about "what is progressive rock" over the years, and I've found that the genre can be pretty damn broad.
I mean, we could use Dream Theater as a template of what Progressive Metal is and define it that way, but that would be very boring and goes against the spirit of progressive music. I mean, when you talk about the big 6 of progressive rock (Yes, Genesis, ELP, Jethro Tull, King Crimson and Pink Floyd), none of them really sounded like each other.
As I said before, some of these bands would be more considered influential to progressive metal than actually being progressive metal. (King Crimson and Rush) Cynic seems to be far too obscure a band for this list. I can't speak for Mastodon or X Japan.
More tech thrash than Prog Metal. But that doesn't keep them from being progressive.
The genre Progressive and the attribute progressive are radically different things.
For what it's worth I generally enjoy both. Though sometimes the latter is challenging to digest.
I am paying attention, I've been listening to Cynic for years. Calling them tech thrash is absurd, I've never heard them described as such before. I can't believe anyone would actually dispute Cynic are prog, what they do is more than just technical. They aren't Nile for god sake.
In overall terms prog metal is an obscure genre in the first place. Cynic's influence is all over many of the new generation of prog metal band
It may be absurd. But from their earliest days, it was how they were described. The terms 'technical death metal' and 'technical thrash' were frequently used in reviews of their discs. I didn't make up the terms...so don't shoot the messenger.
Look. I'm glad that you love Cynic. I think they're a cool band too. The fact remains that they are an obscure band practically unknown outside the circle of us hardcore metal fans. In my opinion, placing them in the Top Ten of all prog metal bands is TRULY absurd. I happen to think that Animals As Leaders play some of the most insanely technical progressive music I have ever heard. Would I list them as one of the Top Ten prog metal bands of all time? Nopers.
Technical death metal, yes. Technical thrash, definitely not. They came out the Florida death metal scene after all, who on earth was using technical thrash are interchangeable term for those bands? Regardless, it comes down to how we define prog metal. At the very minimum prog metal is metal music that is influenced by the classic progressive rock of the 70s. I'm sure we can all agree on that as a starting point? And Cynic definitely fits the mould of that very basic definition as far as I'm concerned.
Focus is by far one of the most influential albums in the prog metal scene. Is that even something that is under dispute? They might not be in your top 10 or even mine for that matter, but there is nothing shocking about the inclusion. The only band that is out of the place on that list is X Japan. As I said before prog metal in itself is a pretty obscure genre in the grand scheme of things. And within prog metal Cynic are a big deal, or is the LA Weekly meant to have done a list titled "Top prog metal bands that non prog metal fans have heard of"?
Fates warning not on the list, wow!!!!
Go back and read the list again. Fates Warning is # 5.
I would think Watchtower would deserve some discussion on this list. Also what about Freak Kitchen?
Nope. Sorry. If he included them he would have to bump X Japan. Unthinkable!
I figured your attack vector for Watchtower would be the same as that for Cynic. But, imo, the case is much better made that Watchtower is uber tech-thrash.
Look. This is silly. No attack on Cynic was meant. Great band. Great music. I just think they are out-of-place in a list of the top ten prog metal bands. No harm, no foul. Thank you and goodnight Cleveland!
Ok. I'll concede your point with Cynic. Death metal/extreme vocals notwithstanding. Their music was insanely complex and WAY ahead of it's time. I've already acknowledged that in previous posts. Still, not exactly what I would classify as prog metal. But I'll bow to your superior judgement and let it stand.
But King Crimson is prog metal? And Mastodon? Seriously?
I know you weren't attacking the band. I meant as in "list placement" attack.
spiral architect is much better than Watchtower when it comes to that style of music...