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Let's discuss "dark" metal.....

Discussion in 'Novembers Doom' started by Jasonic, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. Jasonic

    Jasonic Doom On!

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    Ok, so this genre of bands is probably the most misclassified of all genres.
    I thought this discussion was extremely appropriate for the ND forum.

    I wanted to discuss bands of this genre, who generically are called anything from death / doom to gothic doom, and beyond.

    Following the recent Katatonia / Swallow the Sun / Orphaned Land / ND gig a few weeks back, I have gone back to pull out a lot of CDs from my collection of this genre which I haven't listened to in a while.

    Primarily, I have been on a monster My Dying Bride kick.

    Other favs of this what I will call "dark" metal genre are ND (of course), Katatonia, Anathema, Saturnus, Agalloch, Opeth, Amorphis, etc, etc (I am sure I am forgetting tons).

    A couple bands I have been curious about are:
    Novembre, Paradise Lost, Draconian, etc, etc.

    So, who are some of your favorites?

    What are ones not listed above that are must listens for this genre?

    So, roll up your sleeves, get ready to doom out with your tomb out, and discuss!
     
  2. Psychonaut

    Psychonaut God Of Emptiness

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    Saturnus is EASILY one of my favorites. I'll look through my collection as I think I have a bit of it in there but for now, Rapture is another quality one.
     
  3. Jasonic

    Jasonic Doom On!

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    Yes, SATURNUS are great indeed.
    I listened to Veronika Decides To Die last week for the first time in a long time. Forgot how great that album is.

    I do have to thank ND for turning me on to them, as I honestly was not familiar until they toured with them in Europe back in 06, or whenever that was.
     
  4. OPETH_DT

    OPETH_DT Member

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    Saturnus was awesome live! I got to see them with ND twice in '07... they were excellent together as far as the vibe of the show, and Thurisaz was excellent as well.
     
  5. Psychonaut

    Psychonaut God Of Emptiness

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    As far as the dark metal goes, there's the obvious heavy hitters in Moonspell (mid-era), Sentenced (late), and Rotting Christ (late). It doesn't sound like you're looking for the "beauty & the beast" stuff like Sirenia, Tristania, The Sins Of Thy Beloved, Darkwell, and Theatre of Tragedy. There's also:

    Forest of Shadows


    For My Pain...


    The Morningside (awesome Katatonia/Agalloch hybrid)


    Lacrimas Profundere


    Empyrium


    Draconian


    I only posted from the albums I have so there may be better stuff on other albums. Hopefully these songs don't deter you. As far as Lacrimas is concerned, I'd stick with the early part of their catalog, the later stuff kinda went emo-rockish and generic.
     
    #5 Psychonaut, Oct 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2015
  6. Farlo

    Farlo Member

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    not really sure if The Fall of Every Season would be considered, but its definately somber doomy stuff.

     
    #6 Farlo, Oct 24, 2010
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  7. Novembers Paul

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    I have a totally different opinion on what dark metal is. Dark metal is for those bands that don't quite fit into traditional molds of death metal, black metal, doom metal, but all have that darker vibe. Take Novembers Doom for instance... We're not just doom, or death. We have more then those, and it's hard to class us. We're Dark Metal. Ajattara is Dark Metal. I'd even put the last Septic FLesh in that category. Bands like Saturnus and Draconian are DOOM all the way, and wave that flag proudly.
     
  8. Jasonic

    Jasonic Doom On!

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    Absolutely!

    Though, I am not sure I would agree that Saturnus are primarily doom.
    Then again there are a zillion sub-genres within doom as well! :tickled:
     
  9. NvmbrsDoom5

    NvmbrsDoom5 Member

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    Yeah, the whole sub-sub-sub genre thing has gotten way out of hand, people try too hard to pigeonhole music now. I'm down with using terms and examples to help explain to someone about a band they've maybe never heard, but I think when people automatically turn their noses up towards certain bands just because of their genre classification then it kinda sucks.

    Dark Metal is a pretty broad term that I can understand encompassing many different kinds of bands, but generally I agree with Paul's assessment of the term. A band like Katatonia would probably fall under that category as well because it's so hard to associate them with just one genre of music, but they definitely have an overall "dark" sound and vibe to them.

    I think this new album of ours will really fall under the "dark metal" category.
     
  10. Psychonaut

    Psychonaut God Of Emptiness

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    I went in line with the bands Jason mentioned but if you go more the way Paul talked about, Bethlehem could be considered dark metal as well. I wouldn't have thought of Ajattara as dark metal but again, it's so hard to classify many of these bands today.
     
  11. Jasonic

    Jasonic Doom On!

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    Yeah, it's all subjective, and rarely will a group of people reach a consensus, and that's fine I suppose.

    Larry - Yes, Katatonia would definitely fall under the dark metal umbrella, based on how I personally define and describe "dark" metal.

    I dunno, some people claim that My Dying Bride are the ultimate "doom metal" band. I personally think there is way too many other things going on in their music to classify them as pure doom. Though, if you are not into doom or death / doom, then I can see how someone might be able to generalize them.

    Anyhow, I have ALWAYS loved bands that went beyond the description of one single genre. Growing up, I was always extremely attracted to bands like VoiVod, Pink Floyd, Helloween (sure, they seem to be obviously a power metal band, but it wasn't so obvious in the mid-80s when they were lumped in the thrash scene, etc, etc).

    Finally, I love the tag "Dark Metal" as I think it is all encompassing and descriptive enough to describe the bands which I feel fall in this category.

    :headbang:
     
  12. The Spirit Seed

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    Hmmm...how about some mid-era theGathering? (Mandylion, Nighttime Birds, How To Measure a Planet?). I enjoyed thsoe 3 albums more than their latter stuff, personally. I don't mind that they went in a more tripped-out direction..but the majority of the songs just never grabbed me like the earlier stuff did.
     
  13. great_kthulu

    great_kthulu Greater Evil

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    I think modern moonspell should be included here, their not quite gothic, not quite black and not quite doom, but something in between.
     
  14. Jasonic

    Jasonic Doom On!

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    Yeah, the one time I saw Moonspell, I left with a big question mark on my head!
    Every song was a completely different genre.
    One would be death, then doom, then goth, then black, then death/doom, etc.
    It was hard to relate.
    I never bothered on disc, assuming that they obviously change sounds an often lot.
     
  15. great_kthulu

    great_kthulu Greater Evil

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    ya, they are a diverse band, If you ever decide to check them out, I think their first and most recent are their best (wolfheart and night eternal)
     
  16. FearSore

    FearSore GEETUS

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    I have always thought there was a kind of need for the sub genre thing, and then there is taking it way too far like Larry said. My only argument, and the thing that keeps me from knowing where the line is drawn- is that in the beginning of metal there was just metal, and then bands started to branch out the sound and then there was a need for the genre bending so you could relate that sound to others right??? It kinda feels like we are back at square one these days with a whole bunch of music that fits under the metal banner with no real definitive way to log them one way or the other. When I speak of doom, I usually speak of the progenitors I know of, and then if it is down that road, I place it there (as offensive as that might be, it's just a general rule of thumb with no real regard for the true essence of the music- a pigeonhole like guide). But whatever works... If I was trying to turn someone on to ND and I knew they were into the old doom I would use that damned "D" word as a starting referrence. Though, you and I both know that isnt all there is to ND, nor even where their music sits today - its alot more. I never have really bought into the whole subgenre thing outside of that. It's a tad goofy though when I hear some kid at the record store saying "I only really like experimental blackened doom" or some such junk like that. I guess I feel outside of just simple reference points, the category game really cheapens things for everyone else whose ears havent quite taken in all that the older metal heads have...... ya know????

    As for "dark metal" my suggestions are just as varied as all have mentioned:

    Morgion's Re release
    Tiamat-Wildhoney
    Morgoth-Odium
    Cemetary-godless beauty
    And newer or more varied
    Suns for the Blind-Skullreader
    Alcest
    Darkspace
    Ghost Brigade
    Pyogenesis-twinaleblood
     
  17. Lamers5150

    Lamers5150 All Life Ends

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    So I wrote a giant reply to this and internet failed.
    Here are a couple Select tracks off of albums that in my book are MUST HAVE





     
    #17 Lamers5150, Oct 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  18. Lamers5150

    Lamers5150 All Life Ends

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    #18 Lamers5150, Oct 26, 2010
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  19. great_kthulu

    great_kthulu Greater Evil

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    (couldn't resist)
    (though the band doesn't really fit, the song does.)
    just a few songs I thought were worth sharing.
     
    #19 great_kthulu, Oct 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  20. NvmbrsDoom5

    NvmbrsDoom5 Member

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    See, I've heard that complaint about Moonspell before, and honestly I've seen/heard people complain about the same thing when talking about Novembers Doom. It seems that a fair amount of people out there are turned off by the fact that bands like ours cover alot of different musical ground, where one song is almost straight death metal, and the next is more gothic doom, and the next is a soft ballad, and so forth. The funny part for me, is that this is what I LOVE about bands like Moonspell. When bands can be that diverse while still retaining an overall sound that still is identifiable, I think that's impressive and interesting. And it's what I've always strived for too. Bands like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles covered so much musical territory yet their songs were always unmistakably their sound. Now it seems like you're expected to pick a very specific genre and sound and stay put. I find that extremely boring. What makes Moonspell and Katatonia and their ilk so interesting to me is that you never know exactly what the next cd, or even the next track on the disc, is going to sound like when you first hear it. You know (or hope) that it'll still retain their overall signature sound, of course, but from there on it's basically a surprise, more of a journey, and that's what keeps me interested. Don't get me wrong, I love plenty of bands who do one or two things and never really stray from that, when it's done well it can be very rewarding too. But if all metal bands were to follow that strict formula, well I think I'd find myself getting much more bored with this general genre of music very rapidly.

    Seriously, I can't tell you how many times I've seen people comment that they're disappointed that the whole ND cd didn't all sound more like "Rain", or sound more like "Autumn Reflection". I appreciate that they like what we did on those songs, believe me. But I think part of what makes those songs so good is that we DON'T just write those same songs over and over again.

    In any case, as I stated before, for me the genre of Dark Metal tends to encompass those artists who cross those various lines while still maintaining an overall dark and heavy vibe and sound. It definitely seems like it's a love it or hate it thing with alot of metal fans, where people either really appreciate it's diversity and such, or people hate it for that very same reason.
     

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