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Life: The Search for Meaning?

Discussion in 'The Philosopher' started by WeAreTheLastMen, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

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    As many of you have said, metal is generally anti-religious, as a subculture. Many claim (falsely?) that religion aids in the search for meaning. In classic philosophy, the search for purpose and meaning can lead one to the highest truth - which some would call God. This falls under an area of classical philosophy called Metaphysics.

    Some brief questions:

    1) Does metal, in denying religion (for those of you who follow this trend) abandon its search for meaning?

    2) Is there
    meaning? Or is the search a waste of energy better spent enjoying the pleasures of life?

    Lastly,
    3) Does abandonment of the search for meaning and purpose free us?
    Or is it the search that frees us from our desire for knowledge?
     
  2. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Can you justify your first statement?
     
  3. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

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    That metal, is generally anti-religious, as a subculture? No other subculture reserves such animosity towards religion, as a whole. N
    Now, I realize that this is a dangerous statement. But there are many anti-religious lyrics to be found, many inverted crosses, and even a slew of church burnings in Norway. This sets metal apart from all other musical genres: in none of them is this acerbity present to such an extent.
    Of course, that's not all metal bands, and we're all metal fans. That's not what I was wondering about.
    (I can give you a list of anti-religious bands if you really want.)
     
  4. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    That it's anti-Christianity is pretty easy to accept. Given the Satanism, Paganism, and many elements of other religions / mythologies, I don't see where your initial conclusion, and thus the questions that stem from that, arise from.
     
  5. MURAI

    MURAI -

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    Those are relevant questions:

    1) Many metal fans may abandon in any meaning by indulging in pleasure and entertainment like everybody else. Some of them pathetically enough think they're special by rejecting purpose to sit around do nothing but be "entertained". Then whine about the "system", than really facing life. "Yeah man, forget god, or society dude, I'm a rebel, I buy into this cool, special little lifestyle". True motive for metal is not just to dump meaning all together but to oppose Christianity to pose a new question. "Chrisitianity is dead and empty, and our realities mean nothing, so lets find new meaning". This is why, they make songs centered around the themes on darkly tinged emotion and fantasy, partly on that desire to express disorder and pain behind everyday life. It is a way to face darker truths.

    2) There is meaning. I think its living, struggling, growing and learning. Funny how some young people are dumb enough to think authority forces are just there to "bore" you and make you suffer. The following facts are what make Generation X and Y related. They grew up with that very authority (parents and schools) sanitizing unpleasant facts and real suffering from them. So, they complain of petty pains which are nothing compared to say, the World Wars or The Great Depression that your parents and grandparents had to face. Interesting to note, in some wealthy democratic countries like Japan, Canada and the States, its youth is increasingly becoming more alienated and directionless. Even, cowardly. Many of them dont work towards anything. If they fail or don't go anywhere and the golden excuse is "well, not my fault, I never tried".

    One must accept the ugly fact that life has suffering and we have to fight to live. You can not expect to be pleasured all the time. Think of pleasure like a state of mind. An uplifting one, yes but it cant be sustained forever. The more you run to pleasure just means the void gets bigger, so you close your eyes to the low. Making you rather unable to handle real pain when it comes. Young people nowadays, want everything from respectability to freedom to money because lets face it. We have been pampered. You can not have everything, you must sacrifice something or another to gain anything.

    3) Some abandon meaning because its hip to join synthetic scenes and have a cheap sense of security/identity. Some I believe throw it all away togather because whatever that was important to them earlier seemed to rot away.
    In conclusion, abandoning meaning goes nowhere. Abandoning previous values and attempting new ones, at least is an honest attempt at life, and you will get somewhere at least. When I mean seeking new values, it doesnt have to be done in the field of philosophy but it can be applied to other areas. One should contribute to culture or have some sense of duty to society at least.
     
  6. JoeVice

    JoeVice Member

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    1) denying something is actually taking that thing further. for example, denying religion is a form of religion. metal doesn't abandon, but searches for its meaning in religion.

    2) enjoying the pleasures of life - this is a form religion - aestheticism.

    morbid angel

    a lyric from "pain devine"

    Release this fury
    Malediction
    Cursed existance
    Writhing in this life of dissent
    Pain for pleasure
    Pain for adoration
    Pain is to godliness
    Bleeding for Ecstasy

    3) abandonment of search and meaning? thats impossible. but, it is possible to abondon the search of an object. if i'm starving (and want to eat), the only thing i can abandon is a certain recipe.

    the search IS our desire for knowledge, and our acquisition of knowledge gives us the breathing room to desire more.
     
  7. The Poona of Peshwa

    The Poona of Peshwa Blood Glutton

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    1. Denying religion is not a form of religion. That's an absurd statement. You're giving too much power to that which you deny if that's the case. I'm not some sort of astrologist if I think that astrology is bunk.

    I honestly think it's almost comical to think there is a metaphysical search for meaning in metal. Believe it if you will, but please don't pass judgement on emo people before taking a good hard look in the mirror.

    2-3. There is meaning if you think there is. We're hard-wired to find patterns. So what if its an illusion?
     
  8. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

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    does metal abandon the search? um... no, I mean, if metal could do things, no.

    disconnected questions.

    no

    not necessarily

    sure, frees us from that search. 'frees us' in general, over all, entirely, from what, and why would it?

    I don't understand the question
     
  9. JoeVice

    JoeVice Member

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    but, if you were a metal artist who thought astrology was bunk, and studied to write lyrics of denial, you would be some kind of an astrologist. it would at least have a profound influence over you.
     
  10. Seditious

    Seditious GodSlayer

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    lmao, that's some straight sophistry right there.
     
  11. OldScratch

    OldScratch Member

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    Indeed!
     
  12. Grunty

    Grunty New Metal Member

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    Sophistry!
     
  13. waif

    waif Member

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    Absolutely not. Atheism doesn't require that you give up meaning. It just means that you don't worship that meaning.


    There is no predetermined meaning. Everyone has to find their own meaning. Since it isn't really something that's conscious, or that can easily be put into words, it isn't really a search. Rather, the search is conducted by living by your own values.


    The search shouldn't confine you.

    Are you by any chance a blind deaf paraplegic? Black Sabbath? The Number Of The Beast? Hell Awaits? Christ Illusion? Seasons In The Abyss? Da Den Kristne Satte Livet Til ("When the Christian Lost His Life"), Dechristianize, Deicide, Morbid Angel, Death Angel, Dark Angel, metal is just FILLED with anti-Religious slogans, lyrics, titles, and imagery. Please don't make me list more.
     
  14. hibernal_dream

    hibernal_dream A Mind Forever Voyaging

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    Could you be more specific? Morbid Angel lyrics are filled with ancient gods, 'calling them forth' and 'bowing down to them' and such. Slayer assumes the existence of hell and satan. They seem positively to believe in the existence of a god - how can they be anti-religious?
     
  15. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Weareinflames - What a charming way to completely miss the fucking point...
     
  16. thisisaformicatable

    thisisaformicatable New Metal Member

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    WeAreTheLastMen: Your line of inquiry is based on a very shaky premise and a very poor understanding of metal.

    You hilarious moron. :lol:
     
  17. psychobitch

    psychobitch Hammer Maniac

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    I can't believe I just read all this.
     
  18. WeAreTheLastMen

    WeAreTheLastMen Metacom

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    Are we really going to debate the legitimacy of the contention that "metal, as a subculture, is anti-religious"? There are at least two posts on "the philosopher" that begin with this ASSUMPTION, one being the Religion And Metal thread. Nobody challenges their claims.

    FURTHERMORE, this completely misses the point of the thread, entitled "LIFE: THE SEARCH FOR MEANING? I have no problem with any of your views, but please don't stray too far from the topic.

    If he doesn't list them, I will.
     
  19. thisisaformicatable

    thisisaformicatable New Metal Member

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    You seem to be equating "anti-Christian" with "anti-religion". While metal is generally in opposition with major Christian ideas, it is also neutral to or even endorsing of ideas of many other religions.

    As for the main question, if you have somehow formed the opinion that metal has abandoned its "search for meaning" you might want to listen to some more metal. Metal is "generally" about searching for the true meaning once the false ones offered by Christianity have been discarded. The places this meaning is found are almost endless.
     
  20. Blowtus

    Blowtus Member

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    Wearethelastmen -

    Are we really going to blindly accept an ill-thought out statement and answer questions that arise because of it? Please, list bands that are anti-religious, but recognise that just because I am anti r&b, does not mean I am anti music. If you want to leave it at 2 and 3, then sure. I'm sorry if you feel like you should be able to get away with borrowing someone else's faulty statement just because it was posted here once and nobody bothered to challenge it, but you can't :)

    2 - What is meant by 'meaning' in this context? What conditions would have to be met for something to be considered 'the meaning of life'? How does a Christian 'God' cause anything to be meaningful in a fundamental sense? If we grant the existence of such a deity, and accept that we matter to 'God', what about that would grant us more fundamental meaning than 'I matter to my Dog'?

    3 - As Seditious pointed out, this concept of 'free', on it's own, is a delusion. You cannot be 'free', you can only be 'free of something'.
     

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