This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.

Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

LionHeart- awful

Discussion in 'Saxon' started by Gregger, Sep 28, 2004.

  1. Gregger

    Gregger Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Anyone seen Motorhead on their UK tour
     
  2. DirtySanchez

    DirtySanchez You're my wife now!!

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2002
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I was at Hammersmith. Fantastic!
     
  3. heavycelli

    heavycelli Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Cultural Historicly its very legitimic that SAXON look sat the german market. I mean... the SAXON-germanen lived in what now is called Germany. Even the provinz Sachsen (=Saxon) is situated in Germany just as Sachsen-Anhalt. The Saxon-people came from Central Europe Mainland (Maybe thats why they are more populair here then in GB?). I like the historical correctness of Saxon. I just read a book about runes-signes (think about that phrase in the Unleash the Beast song :"to search for the runes.. to break from the spell that stil binds you ...!") The futhark-rune-sign-alphabet is used on the back-cover of the killing ground album maybe you can see or you have already noticed? I can really give you an advice to learn that alphabet with the prenouncesation of the letters . The name SAXON is spelled in runes and the album title also: killing ground...below in mirror-style (why? I always thought the vikings did sometimes write from the right to the left,but not in mirror-style..doesnt matter) its the Angelsachsion futhark thats been used on the kiling ground cover and I like that. But there should have been a double point between killing : ground just to make clear that killing and ground are seperated words.Never mind...still the intention is good, very well done !! The prenouncesation of the words Saxon and killing ground will certainly have sounded the same as the vikings-germanen would have spoken these words in rune-alphabet. We can never proove it anymore because there are no living vikings who we can ask to read and speak the rune-letters that stand on the killing ground album.. Thats a pitty, but I dont give up the search..some people searching for Atlantis....I am still searching for an old Viking that lives somewhere in a forgotten place on earth, when I find him I will ask him to read it and then he will say words, "in a strange forgotten tongue" that sound like Saxon..Killing ground..;)

    ok enough for today, I am going to the cinema now and watch that movie about a German guy (A.H.) in a bunker; der Untergang or in English the downfall . Its good for my cultural historic knowledge.. Maybe a suggestion for Saxon... write a song about A. Hitler...good for the german market.. I think they are capable to make a good lyric about that person and then some horrifying riffs from Paul beneath it and some bone crushing solos from Doug that sound like the Bombardement at the fuehrer-bunker in the capital Berlin at the end of mai 1945... ok my review from the lionheart-cd .still typing you get it..
     
  4. heavycelli

    heavycelli Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    OK.everybody on the board, Nightwar, Blackblood and all those other good people on this board. As promised my review, later then I would have liked, but the computer broke down, and when I write a review I want to write it on my own computer, comfortable with my own cup of coffee, with everything in it..so in a good atmosphere..



    First some history, the time before I bought the album Lionheart. After three months (Or should I say 3 years to be honest..? Killing Ground)of waiting (Nailbiting-my fingers nearly bitten off from the nervous waiting) due to postpone and another 2 weeks of waiting because of a bad music-store that just simply had totally lost my ordered copy. The bloke’s name behind the kassa of that music-store was Jan… when I left Jannette. You understand what I mean.. took his balls off… really I was so pissed off (different day, same old song, someone dropps you a piss-off bomb, well….. this one deserved it)



    When I finally got the Lionheart copy I was releaved… hehe! The first obstacle taken!!! As I said in my previous entries I wanted to read the lyrics first, before I would listen to the music and vocals on this CD. Other times I did it the other way round. When I was reading I got in a good mood because the first song did remove me from my bad mood. The Witchfinder General. I just projected this song on that bloke behind the kassa in the Music-store. “Witchfinder General, I think this time I really did find a witch called Jan, a disciple of anti-metal, that will die.” Sent for the General, theres a witch to burn! (winkie, winkie)

    Nice lyric of Witchfinder General. Very weird people in those days, imagine..people think you are a witch, but you aren’t..and as proof they throw you in a lake of water minimal 3 metres deep, when you drown you are innocent and not a witch, your soul running free, when you survive you are a witch… and then there wil be a nice deadly fire in which you will be toasted. Here in the Netherlands for example they had another torture instrument..when the witchfinder wanted to prove if you were a witch or not, they did put you alive in a ton with on the inside steel nails, then they rolled you from a small hill into the water… you can imagine that you never could have survived even before you reached the water, your body would have been totally destroyed by the inside nails……..(I hope you’ve already had lunch or diner..)



    Next song ‘Man and Machine’ (BTW I always like the smell of the booklet also this one of Lionheart , nice artwork , nice photo in the beginning…when I see Nibbs with his bare feet on that stones of some castle ruins-remains I always have that cold feeling, feel sorry for him I want to offer him some warm socks that my grandmother made..I hope he did wash his feet properly before that foto-shoot, but I am not sure. Because Biffs face expression tells me something else..and when I am honest when I smell the booklet and my nose comes in the direction of that first foto, the booklet smells like Blue Danish cheese…..hahahaha! just kidding!!!)

    First I didn’t quite understand where this song is about, or what person was meant but after reading Biffs interview I know what it is about Donals Campells speed record. Nice lyric..Can anybody tell what is meant by “Pushing out the envelope?” Good for understanding-language knowledge..



    Lionheart-lyric very good. (also “the return” sounds fantastic, brings me in a mystical mood. What does that angel(?) choir sing, can anybody help me with that? Comiiiiing ho(oo)me , Calling home, going home (maybe a good one for the next competition on saxon747.com…just a suggestion..)? Sounds like a choir singing a church-psalm. It brings me back in that time, I can picture it out in my brains. I always see a king on one of his six white horses galloping towards his goal… And the people celebrating. A king that claims his throne. Maybe a bit like Saxon.. coming on five white horses (bandmembers) back to England because a lot of time spending on the main-land in Germany, thinking “Hey guys we must go back where it all started in England, we must free that metalheads from Britney Spears-shit and Robby Williams filth, we must set them free, freedom will come..” (Just my phantasy..) Very nice phrase to me :”Sing you minstrels there’s tales to tell”



    Beyond the grave-lyric. Fine to me. The chorus text in combination with the music/vocals and technics makes it desperate-sounding. I don’t know how you felt, but I was paralized with fright at 2 minutes and 25 seconds in the song…”Beyond the grave..” (When the sound at once sounds different..you have it in mind? ) I thought my stereotuner boxes got fucked up… after a few seconds you know its part of the recording and the intention..I got chicken skin..not more troubles and costs with Christmas ahead.. gladly



    Justice-Lyric just splendid, but I still have some explain-troubles with the part “When you free the guilty the innocent remain……”Maybe its that man that is found guilty after “the trial by water” by the Wichfinder General, that does survive…he is the guilty-one.

    when you free him… the Witchfinder General itselfs remains, he is the innocent one….but we know better……?! The innocent are as guilty and stupid as hell?!?

    Just to have some overthinking… a good thing…that’s a good thing about a lyric, when you have after the reading some questions left..Maybe a link at the album title ’85?: Innocense is no excuse…that’s a nice phrase.. Innocense is no excuse…. But playing innocent is a crime to me… That kind of people who say they didn’t know but in the mean time they knew it very well..but they just played being innocent…that is the worst type on this planet… The “Wir haben- es- nich- gewusst –people….!



    Next-one..To live by the Sword-lyric. Beatifull! It reads like a youth-adventure book from a time I was 8-10 years old… like those phrases like ..”disciples of conflict and war” or “The Samurai spirit walks with you” Fantastisch! “The bow and the blade are youre weapons” In the booklet it stands the other way round… never mind!( = The blade and the bow are your weapons..)The same as in the Justice-lyric Do you have the passion –phrase or the do you have the mercy-phrase are written the other way round in the booklet. Very well written Biffy very talented..



    Well I move on to the most shortest lyric ever of Saxon or not? Biff with a guitar in his hand.. in a kind of prima-ballerina-outfit dressed like a minstrel singing his tales and adventures on stage (Wouldn’t that be something to laugh?!) When I read the Lyrics I thought In fact Biff and the guys are all jolly Jack Tars. Saxon-bandmembers and road-crew, all men on deck!



    “Once was a singer. Singer in a band

    Came for my music serving my fans

    Far away from family I must go

    Nare to return I do not know



    If I return to tell you my tale

    I will sing of concerthall-smoke ad bloodred lipps

    Stand by my bandmates, we will never surrender!

    Jolly Jack Tars, brave roadcrew and all





    (=the song Flying on the Edge is in fact like a tale, a ship-journey booklet just as Columbus did, what happens underway during a tour, that’s why this song is put on the album is my opinion, first you think why in got sake this number on this CD? It sounds different from the atmosphere of the previous songs, but It drags you in the real cold facts of the present..and then you see that the past still lives on…there is still adventure, still fighting, pain etc..there is not much difference between now and those past-time, I think Biff hates false- Romantic, it was not for nthing that he said at the concert I went to: “We are back on these fucking streets again..its not all fun people! )



    English man on war Lyric- a cracker… good for someone who wants to learn the English language…nice that sentence “Built of oak and hard as steel….The oak tree stands in the Viking/german legends (A time long before the time meant in this song) for the wargod Donner Wodan. They go to war in an oak-ship. The holy oak…



    Searching for Atlantis… very good … The only thing that I would have done else is the pronomen ‘We’ In We are searching for Atlantis….. Who the fuck is ‘We”? Always say ‘I am ‘searching for Atlantis… but ok its writers-poem-freedom



    Flying on the edge..lyric ok… What does “we have got to beat the odds mean”? Maybe someone can tell it to me..



    This completes the first part of my review (The lyric-part) next review is about music and vocals… so stay tuned..

    Heavycelli

    ps. Biff good work! I will give you a good degree on youre christmas-school-rapport ....a 9 (another symbolic number from the old germans)
     
  5. nightwar

    nightwar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
    Thanks Heavy! It's good to see that Saxon fans look into the music in such a way!

    Regarding some of your questions that you asked youreself whilst writing the review:

    "Can anybody tell what is meant by “Pushing out the envelope?” Good for understanding-language knowledge.."

    I'm not sure where this phrase originates from and it is not really a popular saying within the English language. It means pushing things to the very limit in order to succeed, using every single resource you have to reach your objective.

    "In We are searching for Atlantis….. Who the fuck is ‘We”? Always say ‘I am ‘searching for Atlantis… but ok its writers-poem-freedom"
    This is nice and simple to understand within the English language - Biff is stating that 'We' (all of us) are looking to fulfill a personal dream. 'We' is used in a universal context, whilst 'I' whould restrict it to a strictly personal level.

    "What does “we have got to beat the odds mean”? "
    This is a very popular English term. It essentially means to succeed against incredible opposition.

    Nice review, Heavy. I'm looking forward to the next piece!

    I only wish my German was as good as your English!
     
  6. heavycelli

    heavycelli Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thank you very much Nightwar for your comment and the meaning of those phrases..you made it clear to me...in case I have more questions about text-parts I know who I can ask to explain... I am writing on my review part 2 not yet finished...I want to do it in a good way.. What I certainly want to say before I quit for tonight is, that I am very fond of the new drummer Joerg Michael, he gives something extra to the Saxon-sound..to me he is a combination of Nigel Glockler and Pete Gill, technical very strong.. glad that he is in the band... Of course I was also content with F. Randow... that is something I did mis in the booklet of Lionheart: "A small attention or thank-you into his direction, .... Like.. Saxon would like to thank Fritz Randow for his work on the previous years and albums. That would give a better feeling and is more understandable for the fans. For example in my own life I worked with a colleague for 4-5 years...when he left I mentioned him in the personal paper because he was a good worker... and now Fritz is not mentioned in the booklet of Lionheart..( I start to think then...deeper and deeper..was there something? )that is something I should have done in another way.. ok my review asap:headbang:
     
  7. nightwar

    nightwar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
    Hey, Heavy - no problem, I'm more than happy to help whem I can!

    Finding the origins and answers to how we talk is fascinating to me. It's amazing how we English use certain phrases that are totally nonsensical in format, yet mean so much within subtext and meaning!

    I think this probably comes from the English being such a huge mixture of Races and Cultures - Romans, Vikings, French, American etc.

    There has been a book recently released titled 'Red Herrings & White Elephants' that looks at all these phrases and explains where they came from and why. Comments such as 'They let the cat out of the bag' and 'She is a blonde bomb-shell' will make more sense!
    I'm sure you can get the book off Amazon or something...

    Regarding the drummer situation...
    It took a little while, but I have really taken to Michael's debut and hope he stays with the band. I liked Fritz but he never really did anything that shocked or impressed me, you know?
    Personally speaking, I would love for Nigel Glockler to rejoin - he was more than just a drummer, but J Michael has done his best to influence the recent Saxon songs and he has done very, very well when performing the old material live.
    More importantly, I hope Biff and Co have found a drummer that will stay with the band - this will eventually lead to a more various songwriting ability from the band. Similiar to how Nibbs and Nigel G influenced the songs of the band.

    About Fritz leaving, I think he was only brought in as a kind of session player, and this allowed him to leave when he felt like it. I honestly don't think there is any bad feelings involved. The guy simply went off to do other projects.
     
  8. DirtySanchez

    DirtySanchez You're my wife now!!

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2002
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I reckon Nigel Glockler will be back.
     
  9. TheMetalChick

    TheMetalChick Corrects when it's wrong!

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I can not believe that there are people ragging on this album.
    Well, the metalheads here in Long Island, NY cant say enough good things about it!

    I personally think the album is GREAT.

    My best friend thinks it is the best album Saxon has ever done- he wont stop listening to it in his car!!!!!

    Hey Saxon- if these Europeans dont appreciate the new one, come back and play play it for us here in America LOL!!! I have seen you guys here in the tristate area every time youve played since Unleash The Beast!!!




    Just COME TO AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
     
  10. nightwar

    nightwar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
    Nice one, MetalChick - some of the Saxon lads are bound to hear you loud and clear!
    I would really like them to play 'Sailing To America' when you see them. Such a classic, but underated, song!

    I don't think it's so much the Europeans not liking the new album, I reckon its simply because some of them have bad feelings towards Biff and Co because of the friction created by members that have left the band. And in that sense, no matter how great a new album will be, it is still going to be critisized.
    Regarding the view of LionHeart - what I do know is that the British fans seem to love it more than any other recent albums. In the UK, I really think that the band have brought back some fans and created new ones!

    Hey DirtySanchez - I'd love it if Nigel G came back to the band, but I think he wants to just focus on his projects. I'm sure he would like to record stuff with his Saxon mates again, but it is probably the huge amount of touring that is holding him back from the idea.
    I am sure that Nigel will work with them again in some capacity - maybe Biff will be a guest vocalist on some of Nigel's solo work, or Nigel will contribute some writing to future Saxon stuff. Who knows?
    Remember, Nigel still works with Doug on a lot of stuff and, along with Quinny, used Nigel's studio to prepare for the LionHeart album.
    Anything can happen?
     
  11. Roddoliver

    Roddoliver Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2004
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Lionheart is a really good album. Just remember it could be some kind of Dance Of Death.
     
  12. Felamid

    Felamid Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    This thread should be buried now.
    The title of the thread is AWFUL and it pisses me of everytime I check the forum.
    If you call a Saxon album awful, then you're not a Saxon fan. Simple as that.
    Go ahead and listen to wheels of steel for the zillionth time if it suits you better.
     
  13. nightwar

    nightwar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
    I see where you're coming from, Felamid - and I agree that an apparent Saxon fan should not be able to come up with such a simple statement as 'awful' to describe an album.
    The thread has run its course now, but it was good to see how the real fans reacted and the conversation quickly changed to how Great the album is. It also allowed the forum members to realise who is worth speaking to and who aren't.
     
  14. Paxoman

    Paxoman Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Messages:
    2,528
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    A stranger in a strange land!
    Well done Felamid. I was wondering why people were saying good things about the Lionheart album under a thread called 'Lionheart awful'!. The thread has run into 3 pages, but it should never have run into 3 replies.

    As to what The MetalChick said - I have to agree. Lionheart took a long time to grow on me, but I would say it is probably Saxons best album.
     
  15. sapator

    sapator Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Can you repeat that just to make sure that you didn't type it by mistake. Lionheart being saxon's best album that is.
    Thank you.
     
  16. heavycelli

    heavycelli Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Felamid and Nightwar its good that a lot of people have wrote down a positive comment. Of course everybody may say or write what he r she has on its mind or soul or heart. freedom of speech ..my review I will place under a totally other forum title.. but I hope people do read "the awful-entries" so they can see that the balance is pointing to the positive side of reviewing:)
     
  17. nightwar

    nightwar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
    Thanks, Heavy -
    I personally quiet enjoy reading the negative stuff, because I like to learn why Saxon have such a broad range of fans. Like you said, it's personal freedom, and that's the whole point of the forum. I know what I like, but I am interested in what others have to say.
    I think the reason why the thread was getting stale was because the actual subject had changed completely to what it had initially been entitled. Which is a great compliment to LionHeart!

    Looking forward to the review!
     
  18. sapator

    sapator Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Heah right!
    Everyone was jumping on me and greg when i said it was average.
    That's your problem (i'm talking generally) you can't or won't stand for a different oppinion.
    Lionheart for me = AVERAGE
    Didn't grow , will not grow on me. It's average.
    End of story.
     
  19. Gregger

    Gregger Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Interesting to see people posting about MSG on here, didnt he used to be with UFO?

    I remeber taping a live session of UFO off the old Friday Night Rock Show as a youth. Remember listening to it and really wanting to get into it, but realising it was drivel.

    And I'd agree with old Sapator here, I've listned again and again to LionHeart and it does nothing for me atall. Which is a shame as Saxon have done some great stuff in the 90's and I'm sure they could do better. Very dissapointed.
     
  20. nightwar

    nightwar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
    Sapator & Gregger: I appreciate that your opinion is valid and credible, and I'm sure the band will welcome any constructive criticism regarding their recent work with the hope to improve in the future.
    But the general summary of Saxon fans is that 'LionHeart' is a success. The impressive tour figures and the addition of more dates indicates this approval.
    I'm sure none of the fans will take your difference of opinion personally, but always ensure that any criticism towards the band is constructive, justified and has a reason.
    The music industry needs fans, such as yourself, to maintain - and increase standards.
    But,remember that the past is the past and should only be looked upon in order of appreciation and not the inspiration for duplication.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Our music community has been around for almost 15 years and we pride ourselves on offering great metal music discussion, as well as music production and other closely related topics. We work hard every day to make sure our community is one of the best. Enjoy!
  • Like us on Facebook

  • Donate ♥

    We have worked hard for 15 years (and running) to make sure our Metal community is running fast, uses the best software, and isn't overloaded with advertising. If you love the forum as much as we love bringing it to you, please show your support with a generous donation. We really appreciate it!