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Low crowds for recent metal tours...

Discussion in 'ProgPower USA' started by labrekk, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. nomisofsiman

    nomisofsiman Member

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    BINGO!!! I was unemployed for a little over 1 1/2 years due to a layoff. I know I wasn't the only one and I'm sure there are plenty others that are currently unemployed that plays a HUGE part in shows not selling as well. Bottom line though with this whole thread is there's just too many variables when it comes to shows selling.
     
  2. actordude

    actordude Member

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    Side note: Stryper was here this past weekend - in L.A. and down here in OC at the House of Blues. Saw the Orange County show and the place was PACKED.

    I agree with all the reasons listed throughout the thread......for me its about the funds. Terrible excuse as a fan, but its the truth.
     
  3. johnfrank1970

    johnfrank1970 Member

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    For a cyborg, you sure can get flustered. ;) I was just giving you shit, my man. Plus, I am a member of four different Cool Kids Clubs already so I don't need your stupid club, dumbhead.
     
  4. Prog_Please

    Prog_Please Member

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    I used to attend shows all the time back when I was in college, but now that I have a full time job and what not, its really difficult to see a show if I don't have the following day off. By the time the show ends and I get home, its close to 2AM. I would personally go to MORE shows if they started ON TIME and only had maybe one opener (which rarely happens, and judging by most of the responses here, people want MORE bands than less).

    I think over-saturation of the market and a misguided notion of how many fans a band has also plays a large part in low crowds. I'll be the first to admit I don't attend "local" shows or concerts of bands that aren't that big. I'd rather see (I think Glenn hit it on the nose lol) Symphony X, Kamelot, Nightwish, Opeth or Dream Theater than some smaller prog / power band. Since some of these larger bands tour frequently, I'm not left with a shortage of shows.

    I don't know if this has been brought up, but along the lines of a misguided notion of how many fans a band has, I think there's this notion (in some people's minds) that metal fans are 1 dimensional. That its always metal! metal! metal! But I'd venture to guess that I'm not the only one with other hobbies as well. Yes, I like going out to metal concerts and all, but during NFL season, Sunday is an all football day. When the Lakers are in town, that trumps any concert. Open track day at Laguna Seca? I'm there. And its not just sports, there's so much to do that for all the non-hardcorest of metal fans, you have to put on a tour that competes with EVERYTHING there is to do out there in the world. And I think relying on this idea of "cmon, support the bands, support metal" is a terrible business model. We're in the USA, that shit doesn't fly here :lol:



    Disclaimer: All views presented here are not based on any facts whatsoever other than my own trends and opinions. Don't. Rage.
     
  5. dcowboys311

    dcowboys311 Member

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    LEAVE THE HALL POSER!!!!!!!!
     
  6. AngraRULES

    AngraRULES Member

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    Not raging.. but I am curious as to why you find "better" to see a band over and over and over again, over seeing something new. It just literally makes no sense to me, and I say this both as a fan and as a person involved in the music scene. Those "bigger" shows you listed are usually more expensive than the smaller ones too, so...
     
  7. TychoCelchu

    TychoCelchu Member

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    Totally agree with this. The obsessive, one-track-mind metalhead who doesn't know anything about anything else is something that exists only in the imagination of metal detractors.
     
  8. skyrefuge

    skyrefuge Member

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    Yup. And while we can almost certainly say that if everything else is equal, people will go to fewer concerts in a bad economy than they will in a good economy, it's less certain that people are *actually* going to fewer concerts overall, because other, positive factors may be outweighing the negative economic factor.

    Just to cite a few anecdotal examples in Chicago, Lollapalooza sold out this year with its largest capacity ever, Pitchfork sold out, and North Coast is a third summer fest that *started* during this downturn and it drew big crowds too. I'm pretty sure there are more active music venues in the city now than there have ever been before. So people *are* definitely paying to see live music and the concert industry is collecting big revenues, but I don't have any stats to show how current total revenue compares to historical revenue.

    While I'm here, some personal stats on ticket prices. Here is the average price I paid, including all fees, for various sets of shows in 2010:

    All 2010 concerts (69 shows): $17.85
    - Non-metal (36 shows): $17.93
    - Metal (33 shows): $17.76
    - - Foreign metal (14 shows): $20.63
    - - Domestic metal (19 shows): $15.64

    So it seems that metal show prices are really no different than non-metal shows, and foreign metal shows are expectedly more expensive than domestic shows, but not exorbitantly so, with a 33% premium.

    For comparison, the Firewind show here is $20.25, almost hitting the foreign-metal average exactly, while Saxon was a ridiculous $43-$53, which is more than all but one show I saw in 2010.

    Yeah, I know, that was mostly for J-Man (and maybe Glenn?) but I didn't want to quote all three of you!

    Neil
     
  9. Prog_Please

    Prog_Please Member

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    Well...

    1. The bands usually are touring in support of a new album, so I look forward to seeing new tunes off the album (new Opeth is NOT a good example lol).

    2. I don't really see the difference between, say, listening to a CD over and over again if you really like the album and watching a band that you really like over and over again.

    3. I don't have a problem with seeing something new. But if I make up a list of all the bands that come through the area in a year, I'm going to pick the concerts I go to based on how much I like their music / shows, not how many times I've seen them before. To me, its not about the QUANTITY of bands I've seen, but the QUALITY of bands I've seen.

    4. I know you work in the industry and you work hard on promoting your bands, but it still all comes down to personal music taste. For example, I went and saw Darkwater at BARFest, which was a "new" band at the time, because I really enjoy their music. But "new" bands like those that I personally enjoy, don't tour in the US very often. I'd pay to see Disillusion, Division By Zero, VoTuM, which are all "new" bands with only 2 releases each. They just don't tour here.

    5. Since I don't see shows every week or what not, the price of the ticket doesn't really come into play. Time is Money as they say, so the quality of bands is more important to me than the $$/band. Plus, the fixed costs associated with going to a concert turn even the cheapest of tours into a reason for stopping at the ATM.
     
  10. AeonicSlumber

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    These are small tours with bands that aren't all that big. "Legendary" maybe, but popular/big/etc they are unfortunately not.

    Let's take Firewind for example, they toured the US 3 times in the band's entire career. That is nowhere near enough to get tons of fans or sell 20,000 + records. Yeah Gus is in Ozzy's band, but that really has nothing to do with Firewind. Black Label Society did Ozzfest every year for MANY years, plus other huge runs, so it's no wonder they play to thousands of people per night, and BLS had time to cut their teeth when the music industry was a-boomin, too. Firewind would really be needing to tour CONSTANTLY in this day and age to really get big crowds and sell lots of records.


    I'm going to make a tangential point come to a bigger point so bear with me: When I see people post "band x has become the new Blackguard" or "why is Blackguard, Tesseract, Scale The Summit on every tour?" I do chuckle a little because it's like asking "why do I have to go to a job interview to apply for a job?" You just need to. End of story. That's part of the process as selling yourself to that company you want to work for so you can land the job. The same is said for young bands and touring. The more big shows bands get on, the more exposure they get, and the more valuable the band is. But at the same time, just because you "headline" doesn't really mean the band is "big". Firewind doing these headlining tours is basically a function of Firewind doesn't want to take the risk involved in doing a massive tour that would grant lots of exposure but cost alot of money. Instead, they'd rather do a headlining tour in which the costs are much more minimal and they get paid more. However, they are not getting the exposure they need as a band to bring in new blood. Touring 3 times over 5 years doesn't cut it anymore and simply won't cut it if you want to be a successful career band and get big crowds, etc. Frankly Firewind probably doesn't even care, since Gus now gets paid way more to be Ozzy's guitarist, so he probably doesn't need to work Firewind very hard. If anything, I'd bet he does Firewind for fun at this point.

    The same point goes to bands like Hammerfall, Edguy, Primal Fear etc. These bands busted their asses for a decade getting to where they are in Europe, so when they get older, have families and are tasked with the choice of losing money playing Rockstar Mayhemfest or opening for Motley Crue or whatever, and actually breaking even/making some money doing a small headlining tour in the US, they would probably be more inclined to pick choice B.
     
  11. edgeofthorns

    edgeofthorns 24 Hours Ago...

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    It drives me crazy when people use the excuse of getting married and having kids as to why they don't attend shows. I've been married nearly 10 years, have a two year old child and one on the way. Plus, I'm the only income in my family. I managed to get to ProgPower this year but on a skimpy budget. I basically bought one cd and that was it. I live in Tennessee, so I have to drive at least 4 hours to get to a decent show.

    I think it basically boils down to how a person manages their money. Attending a show within this genre isn't expensive. I hardly ever hit the big tours like Bon Jovi or Journey though due to the prices of tickets being sickening! I also normally just drive to the show and drive back. My days of getting a hotel room are over...way to overpriced! I just suck it up and drive back home late.

    With that said, I intend on supporting the bands within this genre for as long as I'm physically able...I've just cut back on the extra spending that I use to do during my concert trips.

    ~Brian~
     
  12. nomisofsiman

    nomisofsiman Member

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    They seriously need to consider lowering the prices at the Arcada. If they're going to book these types of bands, they need to realize that people aren't going to pay that much for a show. Granted, the Saxon show had a decent turnout, but I think it probably would've sold out had it not been for that price.
     
  13. adaher

    adaher Member

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    If ticket sales are actually in decline, could it have something to do with the quality of the shows? Set times have also been in decline, in the 80s you'd get a 2 hour show, sometimes longer, now you get 90 minutes, if you're lucky. And 10 minutes of that might be a drum solo. There's also no real performance going on with most bands these days, it's more like a recital than a rock n' roll show.

    One reason I don't get as excited about local shows as I used to is that the experience just isn't that exciting. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and going to concerts, even in smaller venues, was an event. The bands played until they were drenched in sweat and they knew how to get a crowd hyped. Many of today's bands just seem to clock in and clock out. So once you've seen them, you've seen them. Same as the studio albums.
     
  14. Diabolik

    Diabolik Member

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    I dont think price is that much an issue for most. Sure for the slackers not working but if there is a band I want to see....I will pay pretty much what it cost to see it. I am a master at saving money and planning ahead so it is never an issue with me. It seems that more of the "underground" shows get a better turnout than the normal touring metal shows. For example....There was a one off show with Nunslaughter / Acid Witch / Bones / Absconder this summer. It was at Beat Kitchen and the place was packed for all 4 bands. Crazy crowd with a very odd mix of people. Lots of non metal heads there because they read about the show in the Chicago Reader because it was also a book release show for the Slayer Diaries. (not the band, but the old zine, the author was at the show signing the book). Most shows at the Red Line Tap in Chicago are always sold out or near sold out, not hard since it holds 100. They have bands like High Spirits / Zuul / Deceased / Impaler / Ignitor and that level of band playing once a month. It is a fun time. Then on the other side of the coin I have gone to Reggie's to see bigger acts play in front of smaller crowds. November's Doom had thier much advertised record release show this spring at Reggies and it was not crowded at all. It was more packed when Woods of Ypres played with them. Maybe it is who is also playing that effects people and if they want to come out for it.

    I dont think it is about who is a "fan" or not a "fan". I think each person has thier own priorities and what is important to them. At the end of the day it is just a concert. Some take family first, some thier job, some other hobbies....I think everything plays into effect here.
     
  15. mëtålspëd

    mëtålspëd Umlauts ist Krieg

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    Is it cold up way up on that pedestal Brian?
     
  16. DuchessOfDork

    DuchessOfDork Member

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    Oh GOD, you're telling me..

    Sometimes my friends' taste in music is very disappointing. I stopped looking at my in-laws the same way when I found out they actually paid to go see OAR.
     
  17. ApolloFC

    ApolloFC Sax-Man

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    My situation in NC is that we have two, maybe three venues. Lincoln Theater, Volume 11, and Amos Southend I think. We also have the Greensboro Colosieum (spell) but thats like Megadeth/ACDC territory ($50+) It already takes me 1hr 30 minutes ish to get to Volume 11. The problem is there aren't many metal shows that I like being booked near here (afaik). I attended the UTPOM w/ Seven Kingdoms etc. at Volume 11 on a weekday (Thursday iirc) to about 20 NPC to about 3 NPC towards the end of the night. I only really attended cause a) I knew the band from the Blind Guardian tour b) the show was $10, a steal c) I could stop at my brothers apartment 8 minutes from the venue. d) I was in need of a live metal fix. I don't have a job so getting a place to stay for free is awesome if i need it (ie my living situation at PPUSA).


    http://www.volume11tavern.com/?q=calendar Here's the event calendar for volume 11. (Symphony X tour)

    http://www.lincolntheatre.com/schedule.htm and for Lincoln Theater (Blind Guardian tour)
     
  18. DemonOfTheWoods

    DemonOfTheWoods Your option out of here

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    Actually, no, it's not. Hate to break it to you, but not everything is about you or your band. The people and incidents I was referring to have nothing to do with the times you've comped us tickets or put us on the guest list. So pull your head out of your ass for 5 minutes.
    If you actually read my post, you would know that I'm going to Sabaton on Monday. Already planned on that before Dream Theater was even announced.
     
  19. DemonOfTheWoods

    DemonOfTheWoods Your option out of here

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    Not a terrible excuse- not even an excuse at all- because it is the truth. I'm in the same boat. Some people have the loot to go see everything that comes around. Most of us don't.
     
  20. DuchessOfDork

    DuchessOfDork Member

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    Woah woah dude, calm DOWN. I was joking! I just meant that if you needed a ticket, I'd gladly pay for you, that's all. I just like seeing you guys. I didn't mean anything offensive.
     

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