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Males and Females

Discussion in 'GMD Social Forum' started by damnromulans, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    The bottom line is this. If you agree with the following statement, you are a feminist regardless of whether or not it makes you feel like you have cooties or something: "I believe that women are entitled to the same right and privileges and treatment as men". That is at its core what feminism always has been and always will be, and there's no reason to shy away from the term because others may have abused, misused, and misappropriated it. The same thing can be said for countless other terms.
     
  2. PhlegethonVeins

    PhlegethonVeins Autopsy Obsessed

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    No one was arguing "Ewwww, I'm not a feminist."
     
  3. crimsonfloyd

    crimsonfloyd Active Member

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    Well that's great that the rate of rape is falling. I'm just not sure who these people "leading deceptive movements" are. I kinda feel like you and SN are criticizing this boogyman feminist. For example, it took me about 30 seconds to find the following stat on RAINN (one of the leading rape prevention and treatment groups) website: Sexual assault has fallen by more than 60% in recent years.

    Doesn't seem like they're trying to hide it.

    OK, I was thinking more about other ways that women could sexually assult men, i.e. fondling, oral sex etc. Which a man could do as well. Obviously, women forcing men to have intercourse would only shift the numbers in one direction.


    The phrase "rape culture" has been around since the 70s, at least. So it's definitely not "rearing its head" now.

    And in a lot of points, the "rape culture" phrase is valid, even if the rate of rape is falling. I'm not gonna try and make a case that we do or do not have a "rape culture", but there is certainly a case to be made. Consider what kind of sex your average teenage boy sees on a porn site as just one example.

    I think the important point to remember is that even if the rate of rape is decreasing, that doesn't mean we don't have a responsibility to understand sources that still cause it to occur and try and critique and expose said sources.

    Also, a really important question: where is the proof that feminists are feeding women inflated statistics? You're pounding that drum really hard, so the burden of proof is on you.


    Who are these "figureheads" you refer to? I would like names, so I can at least have a sense of who in the heck you're talking about. Are you referring to scholars, celebrities, people who write zines? I have no idea who you're actually attacking.
     
  4. Saparmurat_Niyazov

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    Maybe it is simply that the most extremist feminists are the most vocal. I don't formally participate in feminist activism, I just support the concept of gender equality, which is what I see feminism to be. If you want specific examples of feminist extremists who are harmful to the movement, I would suggest looking into McKinnon, who I previously mentioned, along with Andrea Dworkin, Melissa Farley, and Sheila Jeffreys. These aren't obscure activists with no following, they are heavy hitters in the feminist movement. Sure, a great deal of feminists take issue with the opinions of these women (like Jeffreys' bigoted views on transgender people), but these women have a strong influence over feminism in general and furthermore into the practice of the law and government legislation. McKinnon, for example, came to the defense of the infamous Canadain child murderer Karla Homolka, laying the blame squarely upon Homolka's husband Paul Bernardo, though there was plenty of evidence that showed that Homolka was complicit in the rape and murder of two teenage girls. This resulted in Homolka being charged with mere manslaughter and ultimately being released (edit).
    So yes, we can agree that a majority of feminists are egalitarians and welcome the participation and support of men. However, how can you still deny the (negative) influence of extremists on the movement?
     
  5. PhlegethonVeins

    PhlegethonVeins Autopsy Obsessed

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    I didn't state there was a cover up to any degree. It doesn't change the fact that in womens studies classes across the country the skewed one in four statistic is taught as fact.



    Oral sex against a woman is already covered by law as rape. Fondling, obviously is not, but again that would obviously go both ways. You managed to miss the point here. We live in a society where men cannot be the victim of rape merely by the opposing sex forcing them to have intercourse with them. Focusing on only a single side of the issues doesn't lead to equality. It leads to greater imbalance.


    Yeah, that damn porn and it being inducted as a business around the same time rape cases began to plummet. RAAAAPPPPPEEEEEEE CULLLLTUREEEEE!!!11111!!!11

    Of course its something to address and have on the radar. Doing such doesn't require labeling a culture where rape and sexual assault cases combined equate to the smallest percentage of crime as "rape culture" ; inflating statistics ; etc.


    Okay, how about the case with an elected official inflating numbers in order to push for change? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unreliable-statistics-rape-scare-victims.html

    Harriet Harman, Kira Cochrane, Jessica Valenti, you know, elected officials, people who run frequented feminist blogs and offer their information to women studies groups, journalists, people that generally have influence on what information is viewed on a public level, and how it is presented.
     
  6. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    They are looking at rape porn?
     
  7. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    an example of feminists twisting statistics,
    feminists bitch about how "the average" female makes so much less money than the "average male" while totally ignoring the fact that the average female is employed in totally different lines of work than the average male, so if a married female with a job notices that her husband makes more money, she should get up off her ass and do whatever-the-hell his job is, a hundred years ago there were tall, strong-as-hell men doing jobs that females couldn't physically do, but like i said earlier, all those jobs have been replaced by forklifts, a forklift operator makes at least 2 or 3 times as much as "the average employed female" and yet, there seems to be no female forklift operators, wtf?? if a female wants more money she should get up off her ass and get a higher-paying job-title, dammit
    i agree with the point you're trying to make in this post, but seriously, if you have a problem with shit that happens in bars, just go to a fucking liquor-store and get drunk in your own fucking living room, seriously

    or Dallas, or any other big city, pay attention to where the fuck you are, in every city there are places where a female outside of a car will be assumed to be "street-walker" type hooker, if you're a female walking and a male in a car makes any kind of attempt to talk to you, you're prolly in the part of town where he already thinks you're a hooker before he even opens his mouth to speak to you, if that guy tries to fuck you, then that's you're own damn fault for being a female pedestrian in the wrong part of town
    i completely agree with this
    meeting her friends on the second date was a bad idea, this is clearly definately the kind of girl who clearly wants you to impress her friends to the point that the ability or inability to do this will supercede whatever good or bad traits you make have
     
  8. monoxide_child

    monoxide_child New Metal Member

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    yes, teenage boys are looking at rape porn
    and
    no, i'm not being sarcastic

    "rape porn" is a actually a thing that exists online and teenage boys are watching it just the same as teenage boys are watching each of all the other types/categories of porn

    according to psychologists, when teenage boys watch mysogonistic types of porn, it fucks up their ability to treat females as equal to males
     
  9. SentinelSlain

    SentinelSlain Suck my joined date.

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    A Europe that hates itself and is bent on it's own destruction is not a Europe ruled by the righteous.
     
  10. damnromulans

    damnromulans Klingons do not faint

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    Do you want me to fucking congratulate you for behaving the way you should and then assuming since you haven't personally witnessed it, it must be exaggerated or fabricated? Why such a butthurt knee-jerk reaction? Why would you feel threatened by women you are not raping being raped or sexually assaulted? I want you to consider why you react so defensively.

    Sexual assault does not require penetration and is classified as anything from groping to forced oral sex. I believe the 1 in 4 statistic includes sexual assault. I would say maybe a quarter to a third of the women I know have been sexually assaulted, and fewer raped.

    The ONLY answer to rape is "stop raping people." Otherwise you are really no different to the Taliban or Saudi Arabians.
     
  11. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    I don't see how rape is somehow magically different from any other crime. While rape/murder/theft are all wrong, there are steps one can take to increase or decrease their chances of being a victim. There's nothing "Talibanish" about pointing that out.

    If I leave my car running and unlocked in certain parts of towns I am increasing my chances of being the victim of a car theft. If I, as a female, were to walk alone, particularly in revealing clothing in that same part of town, I am most likely increasing my chances of being a victim of sexual assault. It is absurd to claim otherwise, regardless of how "wrong" the crime is.
     
  12. SentinelSlain

    SentinelSlain Suck my joined date.

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  13. PhlegethonVeins

    PhlegethonVeins Autopsy Obsessed

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    Defensive? Aside from what you just pointed out,( which aI've already said early was merely personal observation, not all encompassing) everything I've stated is things people can easily be skeptical of. You're the one responding in an abrasive manner.

    Sexual assault does not require penetration and is classified as anything from groping to forced oral sex. Yes, but rape does require penetration, and penis in mouth rape is covered by that.

    The one in four includes attempted rape, having sex under the influence and regretting it, and was of an abnormally small, VOLUNTARY test group. Of the people deemed to have been victims of rape in the case, less than 20% actually felt as though they had been a victim of rape.

    " The ONLY answer to rape is "stop raping people." Otherwise you are really no different to the Taliban or Saudi Arabians."

    Hey rapist, stop raping. "okay!"
     
  14. Saparmurat_Niyazov

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    Yes, it is possible for a woman to increase her chances of being raped just as it is possible for anyone to enhance their chances of being robbed. The difference is, if I walk around in a bad Detroit neighborhood at 2 AM wearing a brand new pair of Air Jordans, talking on my iPhone 5, and counting my stack of crisp new $100 bills and I get robbed, I stand a reasonable chance of prosecuting the offenders (especially if they're black and I have witnesses). However, if I'm a woman in the same neighborhood at the same time, wearing a micro-mini skirt without underwear and a sheer top where my tits are sticking out and I get raped, I'm probably SOL. In our culture, only the most heinous sexual assault seems to count as rape. It's really outrageous that women are supposed to shrug off cat calls, groping, and being taken advantage of whilst being intoxicated as no big deal.

    None of this changes the fact that there are so-called "feminists" who sensationalize things and cause more harm than good.

    tl;dr, I think you're all wrong and I win. :fu:
     
  15. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    BTW, anyone who says "espousing equality = feminism" is either retarded, or feminists picked a really bad label. The very title itself focuses on "the feminine" exclusively.

    I concur with Jimmy on the whole Individualism vs Feminism thing.

    As far as liklihood of finding/prosecuting someone for the crime, that may or may not be the case. In general, petty theft gets the laugh off "Lebowski" treatment from law enforcement.
     
  16. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    The term feminism is used because it's the female gender attempting to raise itself to the point of equality. Just like every other marginalized and disenfranchised group attempting to raise itself up. Feminism, at least true feminism faithful to its original tenets, does not desire to achieve gender superiority, but simply equality, so yes, feminism does = espousing equality.
     
  17. Dak

    Dak mentat

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    No. Feminism focuses specifically on "women's" issues, and I'm excluding any sort of militant/fringe/extreme character previously mentioned. You can't focus on one subgroup of women's interpretations of social issues within larger subgroups, and claim you are only concerned about an overarching "equality". When focused on a single issue, like women's suffrage (long taken care of), the claim could possibly be made. Not now.

    Anyway, only individualism recognizes each individual irrespective of gender, or any other special interest label, which inevitably promotes the issues of the respective subgroup against or at the expense of others.
     
  18. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    I stopped reading after this because it's so fundamentally wrong that you can't possibly have a working understanding of the subject worth reading. No offense. :cool: Part of the feminist ideal is to liberate the male as well.
     
  19. Saparmurat_Niyazov

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    But achieving equal footing in a society that has been male dominated for about 4000 years (i.e. western civilization) is a woman's issue. Of course many barriers have been broken, but equality isn't quite there yet. Of course, this could be construed as a utopian goal, which by its virtue of being utopian would be unachievable, but that's neither here nor there.
     
  20. King Richard

    King Richard Hello there

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    Wouldn't you like to know
    What a horrible topic to discuss. Can we just move on?
     

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