Math. the set of rules and equations by which we define dimensions and quantities in our reality. found in created objects as well as in nature, it permeates everything. from flowers to skyscrapers, from subatomic probability to the slicing of pizza. is it something that man has invented to understand his world? in a way, quantifying patterns that he finds and then creating relations among them? or is it something intrinsic that man has discovered and begun to understand? something that was always there all along, built into the governing rules of the universe? discuss--

i believe that mathematics is just one type of interpretation we can understand, and although we can understand, surely there is a lot more were missing based on our senses and otehr such things dare i say - maybe our math is wrong in certain cases?

The universe is what it is because mathematical rules have caused it to take a certain course. There has always been some unifying system of rules. Our understanding of them is incomplete. It may be possible that we lack the mental capacity to fully understand them. For example, no matter what methods are used, a rabbit can never be taught algebra. Rabbits may make some rudimentary correlations to understand the world around them, but the scope of this is limited. Human comprehension isn't unlimited, so it would be foolish to think that we made up mathematics. They clearly transcend human existence.

Mathematics is a branch of science, and we certainly didn't invent science. What we did do is develop a way of expressing and understanding it, and mathematics is one of those ways.

Well, I've been to plenty math competitions and I've done well, and I got a 27 on the math component of the ACT. I'm no Fermat but I can do math just fine, thank you.

Fair enough, but I don't see how someone with even basic knowledge of any form of higher math could believe that.

i think its called human folly (and thats not an arguement for or against your post, i just dont want to start anything so im bing clear)

This reminds me of the tree falling in the woods thing. If there was no-one around to study/use mathetmatics, the principles behind it would still be governming the universe.

Originally I thought mathmatics was used to define space, and thus the divine or God. The early 12th century and 13th century mathmaticians--religious men-- equated math with defining space, and since space unknown or felt by man was considered divine, they thought such math was too dangerous and well satanically inspired. Soon after when modern mathmatics began, It seems like knowledge of the infinite and thus god was the true aim--look how far it has gone today. With Newton basically one could subsitute force with God.

Math, in its most basic form, is absolute. A quantity plus a quantity will always equal another quantity. One can always "count" quantities, starting at a beginning (i.e. the number 1) and continuing indefinitely. The conceptual part of mathematics is with the symbols we use and the ways in which we express math. For example, whether we use base 16 or base 10 arithmetic, our calculations should always produce the same results. Etc.

This is the description I agree with. Mathematics is not something that was "invented" per se, but rather a rational, organized system man uses to describe everything. Everything in the physical world can be explained mathematically, from time, to distances, to shapes, to matter (chemistry), to physics, etc.. Even music is mathematical. I wish I had more talent for understanding complex mathematics.

True Life Sucks, thats why I stated Math has replaced God; and this was very well known to earlier thinkers, but seems lost to most thinkers today. This faustian gambit of math to explain everything out of essentially nothing. But math and physics have had a hell of a time explaining how quantum mechanics works. Have you heard of string theory? It is all wonderfully theoretical and downright unprovable with current technology.

i have yet to throw my opinion into this topic that i started, so here it is: i would say math is an intrinsic part of the universe itself. the governing rules that set its parameters and possibilities. however, i would also pose this question: if it is indeed something "built in", then who or what built it? or, do you believe that out of whatever origin, it simply fell into place from chaos, the pieces lying where they fell?