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Metal and Fascist Idealism

Discussion in 'General Metal Discussion' started by Planetary Eulogy, Sep 5, 2004.

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  1. AjDeath

    AjDeath Of One Man's Sanity

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    [​IMG][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=+3]I CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST ATE THAT ENTIRE BAG OF DUMB! [/size][/font]
     
  2. Planetary Eulogy

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    Several of you are making the mistake of reducing fascism to a political movement. That's an artifact of liberal socialization. Liberal thought creates a false distinction between the personal and the political, viewing the latter only within the narrow scope of a particular type of social interaction. Fascism is, of course, a political movement (in the narrowest sense), but beyond that, it is a form of Romantic idealism that looks to the ancient and mythic as its source of inspiration (just as Sabbath, Priest, Slayer and, yes, Burzum did).
     
  3. V.V.V.V.V.

    V.V.V.V.V. Houses Ov Mercury

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    Who the fuck cares?
     
  4. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    Show me the definition of the word fascism that reflects this and I'll agree with you, but I myself can't find one.
     
  5. Erik

    Erik New Metal Member

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    Your dictionaries are all infested with liberal judeo-christian propaganda
     
  6. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    I'm sorry, I forgot I was American for a second. :)
     
  7. skeptik

    skeptik Member

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    Also, I clearly said that if he proves his point with sources then I'll agree with him. I looked for alternate definitions and found none myself, but I'm sure the mighty Falconsbane will have the trusty Elitist Book of Definitions handy anyway.
     
  8. Thanatopsis123

    Thanatopsis123 白鬼

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    While reading one of PE's posts just now I was reminded of this bit from Family Guy:

    Peter: Well, I'm gettin' something really special too. And by special I don't mean special like that Kleinaman boy down the street. More special like... like Special K, the cereal. Hey, what do they do with the regular K? And for that matter, what ever happend to K. Ballard? You know, if you said mallard and you had a cold, it would sound like ballard.

    Brian: Do you listen to yourself when you talk?

    Peter: I drift in and out.
     
  9. LordFireworm

    LordFireworm Member

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    Hahahaha! Now the common dictionary is being attacked?
    This is getting absurd.
     
  10. Tanith

    Tanith Halo Fetus

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    Dont be stupid, fascism has nothing to do with "Romantic idealism". Fascism is a political stance, nothing more, nothing less. Apparently my liberal thought makes me unable to see that fascism has roots in romance (???), so I guess I better just shoot myself now and get it over with, cause I fail to see how a form of government hell bent on nationalism, racism and suppresion has anything to do with the ancient and the mythic. Fascism doesn't have inspiration, its simply a system based on greed and power.
     
  11. AjDeath

    AjDeath Of One Man's Sanity

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    Booooyaaaaaaah


    Steven A. Smith says PE is Slava Medvadenko.
     
  12. Jean-Pierre

    Jean-Pierre Son of The Bitch

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. V.V.V.V.V.

    V.V.V.V.V. Houses Ov Mercury

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    Haha I love how Falco randomly wanders in and starts an argument and everyone falls for it. It's so silly.
     
  14. Jean-Pierre

    Jean-Pierre Son of The Bitch

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    Well, lets say hypothetically, you're a fourth grader sitting at your lunchtable, and the retarded kid spasms. Are you going to notice it or look away?
     
  15. Lies and Perfidy

    Lies and Perfidy Gentleman of the Road

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    Hey Morny, come back to metal-archives. We're running out of good trolls. :(

    Oh yeah, if I were to argue this, I could say that just as you accuse us of reducing fascism to a political ideology, you make the mistake of assuming that metal's reflection of one component of fascism (a rejection of popular values) means it involves ALL of them. Christianity was a rejection of popular values in ancient Rome. JESUS WAS A FASCIST!
     
  16. MasterOLightning

    MasterOLightning Optimator

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    I am submitting this post under the pretense that this thread is not a joke or trolling attempt. The deliberate use of "big words" and made up definitions leads me to believe it could be. How one could connect a political system with no real relevance to the early metal musicians, and say that they were subconsciously longing to achieve these bullshit ideals through their music, is beyond me. Do you think that Steve Harris has a sculpture of Mussolini in his basement that he kneels in front of while writing songs, quietly contemplating, "How can I be more like you, Great One?" Fuck no. This topic is bullshit. End of story. The NWOBHM bands were pretty accessible, and had a greater degree of popularity than any other section of metal bands. And metal was not a reaction against rock and roll at all. I believe you're thinking of punk. Metal was an outgrowth of rock as rock bands developed a heavier and faster style. Early metal was a direct progression. There are so many things I found wrong with this topic, that I could go on for much longer, but I think most people here feel the same.

    Let's see what GoD wants to say later...
     
  17. the phoenix

    the phoenix Member

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    Ideology is a big part of the music-listening experience for me. At the same time, I am open minded and will listen to music of various ideological backgrounds. People seem to think that the two are mutually exclusive, but really they're not.
     
  18. Blaphbee

    Blaphbee Member

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    http://www.saint-andre.com/ismbook/R.html#Romanticism
    http://www.saint-andre.com/ismbook/I.html#Idealism

    "Music is entertainment."

    "It's just friggin' music."

    "People need to fuck off with these ideology arguments."

    All subjective assessments, that either

    a) insult the hell out of the artists who consider what they do to be something more, something beyond such a sweeping generalization, or

    b) parrot the postmodernist socratisms that render all critical discussion about an idea inert.

    This position ratifies and endorses only what is useful to itself, i.e. a normativized status quo, while removing the possibility to objectively observe why things are as they are. By semantically bogging the discussion down amidst attempts to reduce, separate and compartmentalize the totality of metal into "isms", and haggle over dictionary definitions that conflict with one another, the point of effective comprehension of metal in a holistic fashion becomes lost.

    Since you all seem content to do nothing but deconstruct arguments into their constituent parts and somehow prove that because one aspect doesn't live up to your's or the dictionary's definition it is wholly false, all this snivelling amounts to little more than sophistry designed for mob appeal.

    If you can't objectively, critically prove Planetary Eulogy's entire stand-alone position to be wrong-headed, getting forty of your closest e-buddies to agree with you in your contention since no one can put together a coherent reply, much less rebuttal, does not win a debate. "Geez guys, none of us can argue against what he just said, but he is absolutely wrong...somehow. None of us agree with his position, yet we all have different viewpoints ourselves - I get it!! It means that none of it matters!! Since I don't put this level of thought into anything of worth, and it makes me feel small when someone else does, I'll shanghai as many people as I can into essentially putting forth our generalized position: no one gives a shit, because our apathy pervades us. When none of us have to try, we can all get along so much easier. Confronted with all of us laughing at you, why would you bother attempting to dissuade our myopic vision of a boundless world of entertainment?"

    The ideas (rather: truths) of Fascism, Romanticism, Idealism, Liberalism et al. have existed eternally; 20th century Italy was not the unique inauguration of Fascist manifestation upon the planet, merely one instance of it's conception employed in a political setting. Just because we as humans can comprehend, analyze and observe the concepts in the apparent world and within ourselves in the context of another human-derived label - "values" - does not make these concepts the property of humanity. We merely came to understand them and put names to them. And in trying to assemble them piecemeal in an attempt to construct something with any cohesion beyond the bubblegum used to hold it together is as practically useless as it is spiritually corrupt.

    These terms exist outside of and beyond the political and social limits you all conventionally understand them in; as such they can easily find parallels within a proposed definition of a musical genre as they can within a political setting.
     
  19. AjDeath

    AjDeath Of One Man's Sanity

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    That fucking shithead. Fuck Jesus for being a fascist. Fuck him in his no good fascist asshole. My eyes have been opened. I bet he was a gay too. What a sissy boy he must have been.
     
  20. AjDeath

    AjDeath Of One Man's Sanity

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    Since I am so dimwitted and do not know the true definitions of terms such as fascism, romanticism, idealism, liberalism, et al. Enlighten me. and maybe I will be able to see this from your point of view, really, I do not see why someone hasn't given these definitions out yet.
     
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