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Mike and Ipods

Discussion in 'Opeth (Archived)' started by nat0, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. Albert R

    Albert R Yorkshire

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    You can judge my driving after you've met me, which will never happen.

    OK then, as we're being pedantic, what if I take my iPod on holiday, relax and do nothing but listen to albums? Does the iPod still destroy the process of listening to an album?
     
  2. Nasty-Fire

    Nasty-Fire Discursion

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    That's absolutely wrong. Maybe it's your case but not everyone's. Never had any accident and everytime I drive I just fully concentrate on the music. Driving becomes... "subconscious" and I don't even become a bad driver. It's not simply in the background, but you know, some guys just can't do two things at the same time. They say it's a girl thing :ill:.
     
  3. Prophet178

    Prophet178 Member

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    Thats why you rip lossless.
     
  4. To rid you disease

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    no point in playing lossless on a mp3 player, you'll need better gear to tell a difference from well-ripped 256-320 kbps mp3s.

    but i think the original point of this discussion has gone out of hand. wilson is against what ipod symbolizes: playing songs on shuffle mode, changing song after the first 30 seconds and most importantly just using the music as background entertainment and not paying it any attention/respect.
     
  5. Prophet178

    Prophet178 Member

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    Well I was responding to what he said about the mp3 format, but yeah, its hard to tell between a 320 and a lossless on an ipod.

    It all really comes down to how YOU listen to YOUR music. I've always been a music lover, and when I got my first ipod nothing changed from when I used to listen to CDs and records. If you are someone who appreciates music, the ipod is a hugely useful device. If you are part of 80% of todays society that just listens to top 40 radio hits, then the ipod will be what Steven thinks it is.
     
  6. To rid you disease

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    yea, i dont have anything aginst ipods. theyre making more people interested in music, thats a good thing even though it often happens to be shit music :p

    actually getting my own first mp3 player (no ipod, mind you) was what really ignited my love for music when i was 14-15 years old.
     
  7. greasyboat

    greasyboat Member

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    that or we have the amazing ability to concentrate on TWO WHOLE THINGS AT ONCE! nothing better than listening to some kickass music while driving.
     
  8. nat0

    nat0 Member

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    If your driving sub consciously your brain is not going to respond when a pedestrian walks in front of you.

    " In an extract from the documentary included with the DVD-Audio package, Wilson laments the loss of the rock album as an art form.

    As a teenager, he would go to the local record store with enough money to buy one album. He would explore the racks of titles and would make his decision on which one to buy based on, among other things, the look and feel of the cover artwork. Once the decision was made, he would spend hours exploring and absorbing his investment from the first track to the last (as it was meant to be heard).

    As a teenager in the 1970’s, this really resonated with me. Think about a masterpiece like The Beatles’ Sgt Pepper. It was never meant to be consumed in three minute chunks, but rather as a whole 48 minute composition, while exploring the extensive imagery and lyrics of the album cover. A work of art like that could never deliver the same experience in digital download format with a single two inch square picture. Sadly, most modern artists have abandoned the album format as a result of the available technology." (http://nextup.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/maybe-its-time-to-smash-your-ipod/)

    "Part of his promotional efforts for the new album included his systematic destruction of several iPods, an attempt to illustrate his contempt for the woeful sound quality of MP3s, and how the current generation has already grown accustomed to dodgy fidelity." (http://bullmurph.com/tag/steven-wilson/)

    Plus mp3 format cannot be lossless and you cannot listen to lossless audio like flac on your ipod.
     
  9. Prophet178

    Prophet178 Member

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    Sure it can. Apple iPods can play Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC) format, which is exactly the same as FLAC in terms of quality. Most non-apple mp3 players are starting to support FLAC now too, and almost all of them support Lossless WMA, again, the same quality as FLAC.

    I never knew the look and feel of a records artwork contributed to the quality of the record... thanks for the tip Steven!
     
  10. wwallinga

    wwallinga Working on #3

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    Exactly.
     
  11. Stilgar

    Stilgar Berzerker

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    Not true, as already stated. However, if it's flac you want to play, there's a nice solution. I installed this on my ipod:

    http://www.rockbox.org/

    And now I can play the following lossless formats:
    .wav, .aif, .aiff, .flac, .m4a, .mp4, .wv, .shn, .ape, .mac

    And the following lossy formats:
    .mp1, .mpa, .mp2, .mp3, .ogg, .oga, .mpc, .m4a, .m4b, .mp4, .wma, .wmv, .asf, .a52, .ac3, .adx, .spx

    And also if I wish:
    .sid, .mod, .nsf, .nsfe, .spc, .sap

    It rocks. :)
     
  12. Albert R

    Albert R Yorkshire

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    Wrong. Ever heard of Apple Lossless? It's just as good as FLAC - lossless is lossless.

    Are you going to answer my previous question? If I take my iPod on holiday, relax and do nothing but listen to albums, does the iPod still destroy the process of listening to an album?

    Judging by your avatar, I'm sure you think that whatever Steven Wilson says is gospel, so I'm sure you won't concede that the iPod can actually be a pretty decent device for listening to music AND albums.
     
  13. nat0

    nat0 Member

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    Thanks for the advice on the lossless audio on ipods - I'm going to install some software on my ipod for it. I agree with Steven however that no one will get the same experience of buying an album, especially vinyl, sitting down on your couch and listening on your stereo from start to finish while looking at the artwork and lyrics. Its something to do with our generation that we don't understand but I'm trying to get over. We always seem to do everything in a rush and on the go - which is why the ipod sells so well. But when your using your ipod theres plenty of distractions because your usually in a public place, I also doubt many people would use lossless audio on their ipod because it requires greater HD space. It also encourages the 'shuffle' feature, its become a fashion and a trend and the 'ipod' is a shark in the industry of mp3 players. I'm neutral on the issue and if its great that you enjoy your ipod in the holidays why do you want me to comment on that? Are you guilty?
     
  14. Albert R

    Albert R Yorkshire

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    Guilty of what?

    You stated (or quoted Steven Wilson) that the iPod destroys the process of listening to an album, so I was interested in your thoughts. I disagree and say that nothing is destroyed if you use the iPod to listen to albums as a whole. If Steven Wilson is seriously saying that an album can't be thoroughly enjoyed unless you're sitting on your sofa while looking the artwork, then that is incredibly short-sighted. The music itself is the most important aspect of an album and can be enjoyed in places other than your sofa.

    I often listen to albums on my iPod while washing up and can be totally immersed in the music. I may be putting lots of energy into getting my pans clean, but it doesn't mean I can't be enjoying an album.
     
  15. Mikael Åkerfeldt

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    I think Steven and I share the opinion on Ipods somewhat. I have 4 different Ipods, 2 have broken down for no apparent reason, because ultimately the quality is shit. In them I store the records of my home collection, records I’ve bought.

    The Ipod is good when you travel as much as I do, but that’s about it.

    Morally, being a musician, I don’t like to support downloading and MP3 players and sonically it’s just such a lousy quality to the sound in comparison to, say…. a vinyl record, played on a nice turntable through a decent deck and speakers.

    I played “Darkside of the moon” on my 1210 turntable through a new, quite nice Yamaha amp and some new Yamaha speakers. I mean, it has you spellbound! The same record, although a masterpiece, will not have the same effect if being played through and Ipod. I had to A-B test it and the result was quite sinister for the Ipod and its small shitty compressed files.

    I though Cd’s sounded cold and too sharp, now with the advent of MP3’s, even the sound of a CD comes across as superb in comparison.

    Actually when I think about it, I hate my Ipods too, I really should smash ‘em up as well.

    I reckon there's a generation shift and generally people have learned or accepted that music is supposed to sound like it does when it's been reduced to a small compressed file. Maybe to their ears, a vinyl record sounds like crap? I mean, the discussion on this would be endless, but as for me...I'll never give in! Vinyl is superior, and that's that!!

    Cheers
    [FONT=&quot]Mike[/FONT]
     
  16. nat0

    nat0 Member

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    Cheers for replying! Ps. Watershed rocks, coil is sweet, the lotus eater is awesome and heir apparent is brutal. Wish I had it on vinyl...
     
  17. nat0

    nat0 Member

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    Well you forgot the quality issue I think. Even though you can get lossless audio its still bad really. Think of it like this:

    Live>Vinyl>CD>Ipod. I don't think even with lossless your getting the same as the CD. Even if I'm wrong here your still going to be listening on shitty ipod earphones which (I will repeat) are shit.
     
  18. Albert R

    Albert R Yorkshire

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    Of course an iPod won't sound as good as a CD or Vinyl on a dedicated Hi-Fi system, but as you say, iPods are the ideal travel campanion. Even if MP3s sounded as good as CDs, iPods/MP3 players still wouldn't sound as good as your Hi-Fi system, as headphones don't have the quality of decent speakers - especially the crappy iPod headphones, which I discarded instantly. However, I don't think it's impossible to enjoy an album on an iPod.

    In terms of the moral issue of downloading, don't blame iPods or MP3 players, blame the people who download/share files and think music should be free. I have over 600 albums on my iPod, every one of which I own on CD (apart from maybe 2 or 3 I copied off friends - naughty!). I'm against free downloading, but I own an iPod. Go figure!

    I don't even like legal downloads, as I much prefer to have a tangible product, which includes the artwork, lyrics etc. I've downloaded three EPs in iTunes, as they're not available on CD. One of them was the Burden EP - why didn't you release that on CD??!! As there was no CD, I had a choice - pay for a download, or download a free copy from a file sharing site. I chose the former, but many people would have done the latter.

    I was watching a report last night on BBC's Newsnight about the Pirate Party in Sweden. Apparently they are the third biggest party in your country. They were interviewing some Swedes at a music festival who all voted for the Pirate Party, and one guy said that it was his human right to download everything for free. Can you believe that shit?! I guess what I am saying is that we can blame Swedes for the download problem. :p
     
  19. Albert R

    Albert R Yorkshire

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    No, lossless is lossless, so will sound as good as CD. That's the whole point of lossless.

    With lossless, the limiting factor will be the hardware you play it through, be it an iPod, a generic MP3 player, headphones etc.

    There are many shitty MP3 players and headphones out there, but then there are also crap vinyl players, CD players, speakers etc.

    And no, I don't use iPod earphones, because I agree they are shit.
     
  20. Kamel

    Kamel Trollhunter

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    Well, I downloaded from the internet (for free) a PT album that I love, had color photocopies of the artwork and right now I'm at the beach, Listening to it on my lossy walkman MP3, enjoying every single moment of their wanky ballads and fully appreciating it.

    eat that, Steven..

    :headbang:
     

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