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Mix Feedback: Katatonia - The Future Of Speech (Instrumental Cover)

Discussion in 'Practice Room' started by flyingkick, Apr 2, 2017.

  1. flyingkick

    flyingkick New Metal Member

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    - Original Mix


    - Remix

    Edited: I just uploaded a remix again. This might be the last one for now.


    I've recorded this cover a year ago, and I spent way too much time mixing it. I thought about uploading it sometime last year, but I'm still not happy with it. So I put it aside and started to take some online courses in mixing. Recently, I decided to give this song another go, and I think it's much better than the last mix before I took lessons. However, my current mixing setup is in a corner of the living room with no treatment, and I don't have a sub. There might be things that I'm not aware of. I want to know what you guys think. Any feedback would be appreciated.
     
    #1 flyingkick, Apr 2, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  2. dr.distortion

    dr.distortion Member

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    Hi! You did pretty nice job with your mix, I like a balance between your instruments.The biggest problem of your mix is a huge lack of high frequences. Don't lowpass your guitars so much(if you did that), also try to add some air to drums with a highshelf on your ambient/room tracks.
     
  3. flyingkick

    flyingkick New Metal Member

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    Yeah, I lowpassed my rhythm guitars around 12k. I'll try open it up more. I also lowpassed the amb/room tracks around 6k in order tame the cymbal wash due to compression. I think I was compressing them too heavily back then. Right now they're compressed around -10db gain reduction. Should I lowpass less on the amb tracks? Or should I add air to the overheads instead?
     
    #3 flyingkick, Apr 2, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  4. dr.distortion

    dr.distortion Member

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    Hmm, 12k lowpass can't be a problem. You should try different amp/cab+mic settings to get more high frequences, or you can add some db's at 6k for precense and at 14k for air(don't be shy with that, you can add up to +10 db on each of boost if that would work, but avoid a fizz that can appear at 8 to 12 kHz area).

    As for your drums. How many room tracks do you have? Normally I'd like to have at least two different room tracks - one mono track for hard compressing and other one for ambience. When you compressing a room track heavily, you should avoid that cymball fizz, you're right. But on your stereo ambient track, which shouldn't be heavily compressed, you may not use and lowpass filters at all. But in this case you should make sure your cymbals are not too loud in a mix.
     
  5. Andrew S

    Andrew S Member

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    Wow I really like this. The clean guitar parts are really cool. One thing that jumps out too much is the cymbals. I would tone those down a little. Keep up the good work!
     
  6. flyingkick

    flyingkick New Metal Member

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    Hey guys! Sorry for the late reply, I was kind of busy over the week. I just uploaded a new remix of this cover, so you can compare it with the first mix.

    I have 2 room/amb tracks. One stereo, one mono. The whole kit is from the Made of Metal EZX, except for the snare and the toms, which are from Metal Machine. I just realized the rooms in the Original Mix section are still raw sounding.

    -In the remix, I basically used the Velvet preset from Made of Metal as a reference, since I use the same kick as the one in the preset, and I eq the rooms until they sound pretty identical to the preset. I also used the ReaFIR plugin to analyze and compare the curves on the rooms with the preset and the rooms I eq from scratch. The only difference I did from the preset is the highpass around 80hz. In the first mix, the rooms were highpassed around 110hz, so this time I try to keep as much low end as possible. I might be wrong though. Other than that, the rooms sound more alive than before. I have to say, this mix reminded me that I should mix rooms according to the song, and the quality and the size of the rooms. Before that, I usually just highpass, lowpass and scoop the rooms. I never thought about boosting certain parts of the rooms until now.

    -For compression, I set it around -5db gain reduction with 4:1 ratio for the stereo track, and around -9db max ratio for the mono track. The attack and release times are the same for both tracks. 0.6ms atk and 50ms rel. It's basically a 1176-ish setting.

    Over the week, I was testing different amp sims and Ownhammer cabs with various mic setups. After that, I thought the Thermionik Psycho C (5150 III) and the Marshall Mode 4 cab with EVH speaker would be the one. However, once I put them in the mix, they sound thin and fizzy compare to the original setup, which is basically the JCM800 preamp with a Mesa Rectifier cab. So I ended up using the same amp, but this time I use the Mesa cab from the Heavy Hitters Collection instead of the free one. I think the Heavy Hitters' version sounds fuller and less brittle compare to the free version. Also, I notched out only a few things that stood out to my ears, instead of killing every fizz in sight. And I kept them around -3db. In the original mix, the notches in the 2k to 5k region are around -5db with a -9db in the 5.3khz region. I think it's one of the reason why my guitars sound dull in the first place. The new one sounds brighter, although you can hear some fizz. In Katatonia's LFDGD album, the guitar fizz is tamer compare to the later stuff, which contain a bit more top end fizz, but not unbearable. I don't know if it has anything to do with analog vs digital or if it's simply a sound decision. The LFDGD album is pure analog, since it was recorded in Sunlight Studios.
     
  7. flyingkick

    flyingkick New Metal Member

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    Thank you! Yeah, the cymbals, especially the hi-hat, are a bit too high. So for the new mix, I lower the overheads a little bit, and I automated the hi-hat a bit lower in the chorus sections.
     
  8. Terminus

    Terminus Member

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    Sounds pretty good to me, perfomance-wise. The guitars are a bit dark and that lead run seems a bit too loud but otherwise a pretty good mix.
     
  9. flyingkick

    flyingkick New Metal Member

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    Yeah, the leads were a bit too loud. I think after I raised the eq notches to around -3db, the high-end on the guitars opened up, so they appear louder. Dunno if they're still too loud in the 2 remixes I just uploaded.
     
  10. flyingkick

    flyingkick New Metal Member

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    Hey guys! Earlier this morning, I uploaded 2 remixes. One with the original amp setup (TSE808+JCM800 sim+Mesa Rectifier cab), and one with the 5150III sim + the same cab. I was trying to add top end on the JCM800, but then I was thinking maybe the 5150III would be better for a brighter sound. But I'm not sure if it's the right fit, since it sounds more on the harsher side, at least on my system. One thing I forgot to mention is that I have one pair of guitars with normal high gain, and a duplicate pair with low gain blended in for more note clarity and definition. This time, I tried it on the 5150III and I think it sounds better than just one pair of guitars, which sound a bit harsher. Anyway, which one do you guys think is better for this mix, JCM800 or 5150III?
     
    #10 flyingkick, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  11. dr.distortion

    dr.distortion Member

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    Hi, man! For me JCM800 here sounds right as it should. 5150 is too bright for this mix.

    As for your drums - Made of Metal is an awesome drumkit, but they are not mix ready drums. Actually it's a very good starting point and with this expansion can achieve an awesome drum sound. But listen to latest Colin Richarson's records - his drums are much more processed there comparing to preset sound from Made of Metal.

    Anyway, you did this mix pretty well.
     
  12. flyingkick

    flyingkick New Metal Member

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    Ah, ok. I'll stick with the JCM800 for these guitar DIs. But I'm going to re-record them sometime in the future because I had to cut a lot of ringing noise in the 2-3k region. I think it was caused by the saddle of the top string. At the time, it wasn't noticeable, but over time it got worse and I had to replace the bridge. I had a hairtie behind the nut, so that's out of question. Also, the pickups were emg 81 w/ 18v mod and I used the Countryman DI. I don't know if that relates to the ringing, since they're both active components. Some people don't seem to have a problem recording active with active.

    This week, I just found out that the lowpass filter in the stock Reaper eq is too aggressive, due to the curve. It looks like a combination of a lowpass and a shelf. 12k sounds like 5k on the SSL channel. Apparently, the curve changes according to the sample rate. So if I want a normal 12db/oct slope, I have to set the sample rate to 96k, which is stupid. The guys in the Reaper forum already aware of this for a long time, yet there wasn't any actual fix. So for now, I have to use a different eq for filtering. But I didn't bother lowpassing the guitars this time because there's nothing nasty going on after 6.5k. I found that most of the fizz in this tone is around 4.5-6k, so I have to cut them carefully. Does it still sound too fizzy in the new remix?

    Which latest Colin Richardson records do you considered the drums very processed? I'm still kind of a newbie when it comes to telling whether the drums are more or less processed, since most records around the 2000s or so seem to be mixed in a similar fashion, such as layering samples underneath the raw tracks. I couldn't think of a Colin album in the 2000s that was the least processed. Probably Anathema?
     

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