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Discussion in 'Backline' started by C_F_H_13, Dec 31, 2009.
care to share any of those?
Not particularly sure if this is entirely relevant to macros but ss there any way to get ProTools slip editing with the mouse? Sometimes you just want to move a single hit without the region boundary overlapping the next hit over.
Also, what's a good Windows alternative to Quickeys? It seems they dropped support at Windows XP, and many of us have moved over to 7 in recent times.
The slip editing thing (like the Reaper/Cubase drum editing threads) won't work in PT. AFAIK.
There's nothing as intuitive as Quickeys on Mac...for PC.
Strange, I for some reason the other day intuitively held control to slip a region whilst in grid mode and it worked. Went to do it on another system and it didn't. I was confuzzled.
For PC I hear a lot about people using AutoHotKey, it's free, worth checking out.
I use ctrl all the time to slip in grid mode.
must be something in their settings on the other system
Sometimes you just want to move a single hit without the region boundary overlapping the next hit over.
I use ctrl all the time to slip in grid mode.
are not the same thing.
see Adam's thread on drum editing in Reaper.
Autohotkey works but it's fully manual coding. It's a pain.
Autohotkey scared me. I do not want actual coding to be part of my workflow, I have Cubase for that!
Shame about PT not having true slip mode.
Yeah, this is slip editing...
"Slip Editing" in Pro Tools is just moving items with snap to grid disabled.
Oops somehow posted the wrong vid!
That's slip editing.
Basically, the region stays in the same place and the edges don't move, but you can move the audio around INSIDE that region. If you check out the Reaper Slip Editing tutorial I posted James you can have a good idea of how it's useful for edits!
ah yeah.. ok... could do that in Digital Performer, but i never miss it in PT... just never had much use for it. i mean, sure... it's pretty "cool" or whatever... but i've just never had the slightest use for it.
what do you use it for? don't you make your edits accurately to start with? just curious.
I do a lot of manual editing outside of BD, and as we've all experienced there are frequently hits that are closer to the wrong grid value than the correct one. So rather than being able to quickly get a hit in place using Quantize, we have to first shift it and then quantize. The issue here being that if the hit is too far AHEAD of time, and we move it back, the region end will then overlap the transient of the next hit down the track, since our hits are likely split at transients. With slip editing you move the audio without moving the region itself, which simply just saves time in these situations, and is also a lot more convenient in general for editing guitars or bass (in the odd few times I don't use EA for it).
Question, I was reading the manual trying to find a way to do this, but I didn't stumble on anything. When you use the 'Quantize to Grid' shortcut, ie. Windows key + Numpad 0, how do you get it to work within a strength and exclusion tolerance? It seems to only hard quantize exactly to the grid. I quite like being able to skip past needing to open the quantization window every single time I grid hits, but I never use 100% strength, so it's useless to me.
I use it to do all my drum editing. There are no "edits" even created before I start slip editing... Here's a really quick video to save you watching that lengthy tutorial...
I also use it to do all my guitar, bass, and vocal editing. I never move regions when editing things for tightness (moving guitar or bass notes around, etc.), only when moving whole parts around or copying and pasting. Just make a cut and slip. No gaps and crossfades are already created so for me I find it easier and it gives me quicker control over everything. Especially vs typing in trigger times in beat detective. The end result is exactly the same as cutting at all the transients, moving everything to the grid and filling the gaps, except here you are doing it all at the same time and don't have to worry about anything getting automatically snapped to the wrong place.
well.. i never have to "worry about things getting snapped to the wrong place".. i'm able to quickly edit trigger times in the same pass that i'm making sure that there's a trigger on each transient, and no false triggers... i find it quite quick... and since i never do any cross-fades until i've listened and know that the results are accurate (which to me is the only logical way to do x-fades; only when you know your edits are good), that aspect is not an issue for me... so, i just never need such a function.
maybe they'll add it to PT in a future update. request it... if enough people do, it'll be added eventually. but i doubt i'll ever use it, regardless.
Well I never have any "bad edits" doing it this way, the place that I split the audio ensures that my crossfade is going to be placed in the most appropriate spot automatically... Here's a vid sort of comparing the results to doing it the beat detective way of split, move, fill to the slipping way..
Obviously Beat Detective is quite fast for a lot of stuff, and it does all the splitting, quantizing and filling in batch processes so it's pretty quick, I'm not arguing that. I just want to make it clear that the quality of the end result is exactly the same and the crossfades end up in the exact same place. Beat Detective is great, I used it yesterday to edit a song instead of slipping because the playing was pretty tight and I could do huge sections at once which made it a breeze and let me go through it really quickly. But there's still a lot of times where Beat Detective just straight up will not let you add a transient marker to a hit (even if no other trigger points are already assigned to the beat location you are trying to assign the new trigger point to) and there's a lot of fast complex stuff where I find I have to edit almost every single trigger time manually anyways, so for that stuff, slipping is faster for me.
Again, Beat Detective is awesome, I love it, I just want to make sure you aren't under the impression that I am somehow sacrificing the quality of the edits to do it the slip way. The end result places the hits and crossfades all in the exact same place, the only downside is you have to do every hit manually one at a time whereas BD can batch process. If BD is going to have a hard time with what I'm trying to edit though, cutting and slipping is faster then cutting and snapping all the regions manually and using BD just to fill the gaps after the fact.
Ermz, just a quick tip in PT for manual editing like you mentioned (where you overlap transients)... When you need to move a hit later and it's going to kill the next transient, select the region you are going to move and hit ALT+SHIFT+ENTER. This will select that region and every region AFTER it, so you are moving everything later, not just that hit. You won't lose the transients this way and you'll just have to do the same thing for the next hit to bring everything back to where it was. This is how jval does that sort of thing in PT and I never knew about that command until I saw him do it. It's basically doing exactly what slip editing is once you fill the gaps after the fact, so you can basically just use BD to cut up the whole song at once, go through and alt+0 to quantize any sections you can, move individual regions early if they were late and use the alt+shift+enter thing when you need to to move whole sections later that are too early. It's super quick, I've seen Jordan blast through pretty complicated stuff in an hour this way. Pretty much the best of both worlds with being able to quantize large sections and do really quick manual edits without losing transients. If PT was more stable on my machine and I didn't love Reaper so much that's definitely how I'd be doing things, very efficient.
Adam.. after watching your first vid i was agreeing with you more than not... but the second actually weakened your case for me... you made some assumptions that are just wrong, at least the way i do things in BD... but slip does seem to be a cool feature all the same, and maybe it'll be added if enough people ask for it.
besides cool, its actually a legitimate tool for audio editing that pro tools doesnt offer
lets say you need to punch in a d chord ringing out at the end of the song
so you set your pre roll and you quick punch and the guy was early
so next you're going to trim back to reveal the strike of the chord...
at this point you need to adjust the starting point of the region
well in pro tools you can't see wave forms as you slide them around, so slipping the region is going to be a guessing game. it will probably take about 3 - 5 click and drags before you get it in the right place. or you could go up to the nudge value and select a guestimate number to work with (because you have no way of knowing how far off the hit is without measuring, which would take more time), so then you keep hitting the nudge keys until you get in place. my guess is that's going to take about 10 - 20 key strokes unless you use a really big nudge value.
in cubase, you could just slip it. hold down a key, drag with mouse, let go when wave form is lined up to grid, done.
that would take less than 1 second.
a lot of people hate on cubase, say pro tools is the best, or just believe that PT's got all the secrets to audio editing. BUT IT DOESNT. go on the DUC and see how many people requesting for "audio editing like midi". being able to trim multiple regions on the same track, or select 3 regions and use the fade tool to fade those regions the same way. you can't do these things with pro tools right now, and its really far behind the "alternate thinking" methods we've grown accustomed too with modern day computing. im not trying to say pro tools is inferior because its quite capable. but it takes more actions to do simple things.
you can argue with me about that as much as you want, but i know first hand that these missing tools / functionality are very useful in engineering, and editing.
I'd agree with you there Joey. As it stands, no DAW is perfect, so we make do with the least shortcomings we can find. As a whole I still greatly prefer using PT over Cubase, but as much of that is a personal workflow thing as anything else. It's mostly to do with what features we find necessary, and how willing we are to compromise in certain areas.
are you trying to make some point to me? you quoted me...so i'm guessing that little tirade at the end there was pointed at me....
look, i said it seemed cool... also said i didn't miss it... and i edit and track just fine without it. anyway, i also said people should request what they want... that's what i do. not sure why you are ranting at me about this... i get the impression you are trying to dislike PT as hard as you can, and trying to make yourself believe i'm arguing with you about it's perceived shortcomings.. i'm not.
and i say "perceived" because each user has their own "wish list" of changes... i have mine, you have yours, and i'm sure there's some crossover bullet points on our respective lists... but right now, that "slip" mode, isn't one of them.
if it's ever added to PT, i may get used to it and find it's advantages in my own workflow... but as of this moment, i most certainly can "argue" the point, since i edit quickly without it, and have never once found myself wishing for such a feature.
end of story..
and i'll repeat... it seems like a cool feature.